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Okay, well, I guess you all would have found out sooner or later. It was me. I didnt do it cause I was addicted or mad at Aeq. Theres really no reason for doing it other than pure stupidity. Nothing more I guess I can really say. Im sorry for what I did, not only because of the punishment. Im sorry because I realize what kind of pain in the ass I was and the inconveinces I cause Aeq. Since I will probably only catch harrasment here now, I will probably not be posting and only reading (as it is very intertaining). Like I said, sorry.
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Can we first start with -reps please?
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Ass chewing, how about booting your ass? If I were running this forum, you would be booted already.
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Anyone want an update?
Today, I spoke with John (holdemstewart). We've been going back and forth for a few weeks now. He told me that the money was in the mail as of today, because his mom was waiting on a check to clear. Call me crazy, but I believe him. He knows what's going to happen if I don't get the money, so we can hold off on that. If you go back and read my earlier posts about what happened, that basically brings you up to speed. It's been a while, so I'll try to get the story right: My accounts (Stars, Yahoo, and Neteller) were taken over sometime between 6:30 - 8:30 am on a Saturday. I was able to pinpoint the timing from emails I received from Stars and Neteller. I logged onto TP.com to see who was active during that time, and luckily enough for me, the only poster who made a post during that time period was holdemstewart at 8:07 am. It's not enough evidence, but at least it was something. I threatened Stars with a subpoena, and they released his IP address. I verified this with Neteller. I traced this IP to "holdemstewart" on the forums, and finally the picture was making sense. (Again, I'm not going to explain the methodology for doing this, because it could happen to someone else...) 1. I got my Stars account back, but eventually deleted it and created a new account. 2. I have a new Neteller account. 3. I retook back my Yahoo account, on my own and without the help of Yahoo. Now, let's get to Monday. Accounts were jacked on Saturday, and I get home from work Monday around 6, and go online. holdemstewart is on AIM. How could I pass up confronting the criminal? Scroll down the for the transcript...
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Aequitas58: hey there.
Aequitas58: crazy - i have evidence linking you to stealing my accounts. Aequitas58: i also have your IP, which I've traced. Aequitas58: Missouri, eh? Aequitas58: we need to talk. if you're not willing, you can talk to the police, because I plan on contacting them in the very near future. johnstewart80: im here now Aequitas58: you f-ed up, bro. johnstewart80: i know... Aequitas58: you know im an attorney? Aequitas58: and you do this? Aequitas58: not smart. johnstewart80: i didnt know johnstewart80: i read it Aequitas58: doesn't matter. Aequitas58: you did it. johnstewart80: i know Aequitas58: and whats worse... Aequitas58: (seriously) ... the bank fraud via neteller. Aequitas58: they have it documented for me for the police. Aequitas58: stars told me you lost the 300 in 10 hands at 15/30. Aequitas58: the way i see it, you can either decide to cooperate, or not. if you choose not to, i can promise that you will not like the end result. johnstewart80: dont remember johnstewart80: im being VERY cooperstive bro johnstewart80: i know i fucked up Aequitas58: brb. johnstewart80: and im want to do everything i can to make it right Aequitas58: you live in St. Joseph, right? johnstewart80: thats correct Aequitas58: i have a postal inquiry sent to the St. Joseph postmaster. Aequitas58: i should get it back by the end of the week. Aequitas58: what's your phone number... i want to call you now. johnstewart80: dont have one.... johnstewart80: cell phone doesnt have minutes johnstewart80: i should soon tho Aequitas58: house phone. johnstewart80: 816075201865 johnstewart80: no house phone Aequitas58: ok. Aequitas58: that's fine. johnstewart80: (816)-752-1865 Aequitas58: what is that? cell phone? johnstewart80: yes Aequitas58: you're 18, right? johnstewart80: ill have minutes in a week or so johnstewart80: yes Aequitas58: dude, you better get yourself a phone... Aequitas58: we're talking jail time here... johnstewart80: i know this Aequitas58: bank fraud, harrassment, identity theft, cybercrimes, etc. johnstewart80: thats why i want to be as cooperstive as possible Aequitas58: not to mention wire fraud over the internet. johnstewart80: i hear you Aequitas58: Stars and Neteller have already told me they can furnish any documents i need. Aequitas58: where are your parents? johnstewart80: dont really know my dad and mom is never here Aequitas58: how am i getting my 300 back? johnstewart80: me Aequitas58: i'm not waiting, and i'm not taking a payment plan. johnstewart80: i just started a dominos job johnstewart80: and i will be full time electrician next month Aequitas58: lol - great. how can i believe you? you already hijacked my shit - you're the last person i can believe. c'mon - no phone? Aequitas58: this is just too fishy. johnstewart80: dude, i swear johnstewart80: i realized i messed up johnstewart80: you have all my information Aequitas58: why would you do that? johnstewart80: do you think i want to go to jail? Aequitas58: b/c i told you to get a job on the forum? Aequitas58: i dont know if you want to go to jail or not. i kinda think they dont have internet poker in jail, but who knows w/ the white collar crime prisons. johnstewart80: lol, pretty sure not johnstewart80: well Aequitas58: how are you planning on paying me back? johnstewart80: ill talk to my mom, shell bitch at me for a bit johnstewart80: take computer away johnstewart80: all the shit johnstewart80: and prolly write you off a check johnstewart80: then i pay her back Aequitas58: it's better that she takes it away and not the cops, because they confiscate that stuff. johnstewart80: indeed johnstewart80: brb johnstewart80: back Aequitas58: ok so here's the deal. Aequitas58: because you are willing to be cooperative, i will consider not pursuing this - even though you've caused me a shitty weekend. BUT: I want some kind of payment in the mail by the end of the week. It's Monday. talk to your Mom or whoever... Aequitas58: and get it done. Aequitas58: $300. Aequitas58: For the time being, I will also refrain from going public with this on TalkingPoker. Aequitas58: Although there are members who know what happened. johnstewart80: mayhem? Aequitas58: and know it was you. Aequitas58: there are ... probably 5 other people who know. Aequitas58: i will not give out details. Aequitas58: one poster wants me to give him your address. johnstewart80: xxx-xxx-xxxx johnstewart80: that your phone? Aequitas58: no Aequitas58: that's my old phone. Aequitas58: and how do you still have my account details? johnstewart80: just the phone number Aequitas58: that's old. johnstewart80: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (Did you really want to post your address, Lou?) johnstewart80: that too Aequitas58: that's new. johnstewart80: send ut tgere> johnstewart80: there* Aequitas58: that's where i'm at now. Aequitas58: yes, send it there. Aequitas58: as i said, you have until the end of the week. if i don't get $300 by early next week, I will stop talking to you and proceed forward. johnstewart80: if i dont see mom, i will call you, i need your phone number johnstewart80: almost sure ill see here johnstewart80: her* Aequitas58: you can reach me on AIM or via PM on talking poker. Aequitas58: i dont need to give out my number right now. johnstewart80: VERY understanble Aequitas58: it's bad enough you already have my fucking home address. johnstewart80: nothin i can do with it johnstewart80: think im flying out here? johnstewart80: there Aequitas58: i dont wanna hear it... just make sure you figure out some kind of payment. Aequitas58: if your mom prefers a cashiers check or money order, that's fine too. Aequitas58: oh - and i dont wanna hear bullshit that the money was sent, but you didn't get it. Aequitas58: make sure i get it. johnstewart80: loud and clear Aequitas58: that's it for now. thanks for the headache. johnstewart80: i know im the last person you want a tip from, but you want one ne ways? Aequitas58: go ahead. johnstewart80: keep your city off the internet Aequitas58: why johnstewart80: and birthdate johnstewart80: thats all you need to gte into someones yahoo account Aequitas58: excellent. neteller was easy (you got that from yahoo, i assume) how did you get into stars? johnstewart80: stars has good security johnstewart80: sent them an email asking for the password to be reset johnstewart80: and answered like 10 questions johnstewart80: address, last 4 digits of your last deposit johnstewart80: last email address johnstewart80: first and last name Aequitas58: alright, stop talking, b/c you're pissing me off. johnstewart80: i appologize Aequitas58: we'll see how much you're sorry. johnstewart80: and beleive me or not, im sorry, VERY sorry Aequitas58: you're sorry b/c of the consequences. Aequitas58: i'm not an idiot. Aequitas58: just get done what you have to get done. talk to me later in the week. johnstewart80: no, im sorry because i thought about what i did and what a prick thing it was to do johnstewart80: BTW johnstewart80: whats that inquiry thing Aequitas58: it's a legal notice to the postmaster of your city that a lawyer is requesting further information (ie: who lives there, confirm the street address, etc) for the beginning of legal proceedings. Aequitas58: it's free - if you know what you're doing. :-) Aequitas58: and i do. johnstewart80: obviousl johnstewart80: y johnstewart80: lol Aequitas58: and who has NO house phone? Aequitas58: i just don't believe that johnstewart80: a single parent with 2 kids johnstewart80: thats who johnstewart80: we'll have one after we move Aequitas58: alright johnstewart80: well im going to go, gunna see if my mom is at her BF's house johnstewart80: byeAequitas58: hey there. Aequitas58: crazy - i have evidence linking you to stealing my accounts. Aequitas58: i also have your IP, which I've traced. Aequitas58: Missouri, eh? Aequitas58: we need to talk. if you're not willing, you can talk to the police, because I plan on contacting them in the very near future. johnstewart80: im here now Aequitas58: you f-ed up, bro. johnstewart80: i know... Aequitas58: you know im an attorney? Aequitas58: and you do this? Aequitas58: not smart. johnstewart80: i didnt know johnstewart80: i read it Aequitas58: doesn't matter. Aequitas58: you did it. johnstewart80: i know Aequitas58: and whats worse... Aequitas58: (seriously) ... the bank fraud via neteller. Aequitas58: they have it documented for me for the police. Aequitas58: stars told me you lost the 300 in 10 hands at 15/30. Aequitas58: the way i see it, you can either decide to cooperate, or not. if you choose not to, i can promise that you will not like the end result. johnstewart80: dont remember johnstewart80: im being VERY cooperstive bro johnstewart80: i know i fucked up Aequitas58: brb. johnstewart80: and im want to do everything i can to make it right Aequitas58: you live in St. Joseph, right? johnstewart80: thats correct Aequitas58: i have a postal inquiry sent to the St. Joseph postmaster. Aequitas58: i should get it back by the end of the week. Aequitas58: what's your phone number... i want to call you now. johnstewart80: dont have one.... johnstewart80: cell phone doesnt have minutes johnstewart80: i should soon tho Aequitas58: house phone. johnstewart80: 816075201865 johnstewart80: no house phone Aequitas58: ok. Aequitas58: that's fine. johnstewart80: (816)-752-1865 Aequitas58: what is that? cell phone? johnstewart80: yes Aequitas58: you're 18, right? johnstewart80: ill have minutes in a week or so johnstewart80: yes Aequitas58: dude, you better get yourself a phone... Aequitas58: we're talking jail time here... johnstewart80: i know this Aequitas58: bank fraud, harrassment, identity theft, cybercrimes, etc. johnstewart80: thats why i want to be as cooperstive as possible Aequitas58: not to mention wire fraud over the internet. johnstewart80: i hear you Aequitas58: Stars and Neteller have already told me they can furnish any documents i need. Aequitas58: where are your parents? johnstewart80: dont really know my dad and mom is never here Aequitas58: how am i getting my 300 back? johnstewart80: me Aequitas58: i'm not waiting, and i'm not taking a payment plan. johnstewart80: i just started a dominos job johnstewart80: and i will be full time electrician next month Aequitas58: lol - great. how can i believe you? you already hijacked my shit - you're the last person i can believe. c'mon - no phone? Aequitas58: this is just too fishy. johnstewart80: dude, i swear johnstewart80: i realized i messed up johnstewart80: you have all my information Aequitas58: why would you do that? johnstewart80: do you think i want to go to jail? Aequitas58: b/c i told you to get a job on the forum? Aequitas58: i dont know if you want to go to jail or not. i kinda think they dont have internet poker in jail, but who knows w/ the white collar crime prisons. johnstewart80: lol, pretty sure not johnstewart80: well Aequitas58: how are you planning on paying me back? johnstewart80: ill talk to my mom, shell bitch at me for a bit johnstewart80: take computer away johnstewart80: all the shit johnstewart80: and prolly write you off a check johnstewart80: then i pay her back Aequitas58: it's better that she takes it away and not the cops, because they confiscate that stuff. johnstewart80: indeed johnstewart80: brb johnstewart80: back Aequitas58: ok so here's the deal. Aequitas58: because you are willing to be cooperative, i will consider not pursuing this - even though you've caused me a shitty weekend. BUT: I want some kind of payment in the mail by the end of the week. It's Monday. talk to your Mom or whoever... Aequitas58: and get it done. Aequitas58: $300. Aequitas58: For the time being, I will also refrain from going public with this on TalkingPoker. Aequitas58: Although there are members who know what happened. johnstewart80: mayhem? Aequitas58: and know it was you. Aequitas58: there are ... probably 5 other people who know. Aequitas58: i will not give out details. Aequitas58: one poster wants me to give him your address. johnstewart80: 609-932-2546 johnstewart80: that your phone? Aequitas58: no Aequitas58: that's my old phone. Aequitas58: and how do you still have my account details? johnstewart80: just the phone number Aequitas58: that's old. johnstewart80: XXXXXXXXXXXXX - Same deal - double posted or something? I'm not going to clean this whole thing up. johnstewart80: that too Aequitas58: that's new. johnstewart80: send ut tgere> johnstewart80: there* Aequitas58: that's where i'm at now. Aequitas58: yes, send it there. Aequitas58: as i said, you have until the end of the week. if i don't get $300 by early next week, I will stop talking to you and proceed forward. johnstewart80: if i dont see mom, i will call you, i need your phone number johnstewart80: almost sure ill see here johnstewart80: her* Aequitas58: you can reach me on AIM or via PM on talking poker. Aequitas58: i dont need to give out my number right now. johnstewart80: VERY understanble Aequitas58: it's bad enough you already have my fucking home address. johnstewart80: nothin i can do with it johnstewart80: think im flying out here? johnstewart80: there Aequitas58: i dont wanna hear it... just make sure you figure out some kind of payment. Aequitas58: if your mom prefers a cashiers check or money order, that's fine too. Aequitas58: oh - and i dont wanna hear bullshit that the money was sent, but you didn't get it. Aequitas58: make sure i get it. johnstewart80: loud and clear Aequitas58: that's it for now. thanks for the headache. johnstewart80: i know im the last person you want a tip from, but you want one ne ways? Aequitas58: go ahead. johnstewart80: keep your city off the internet Aequitas58: why johnstewart80: and birthdate johnstewart80: thats all you need to gte into someones yahoo account Aequitas58: excellent. neteller was easy (you got that from yahoo, i assume) how did you get into stars? johnstewart80: stars has good security johnstewart80: sent them an email asking for the password to be reset johnstewart80: and answered like 10 questions johnstewart80: address, last 4 digits of your last deposit johnstewart80: last email address johnstewart80: first and last name Aequitas58: alright, stop talking, b/c you're pissing me off. johnstewart80: i appologize Aequitas58: we'll see how much you're sorry. johnstewart80: and beleive me or not, im sorry, VERY sorry Aequitas58: you're sorry b/c of the consequences. Aequitas58: i'm not an idiot. Aequitas58: just get done what you have to get done. talk to me later in the week. johnstewart80: no, im sorry because i thought about what i did and what a prick thing it was to do johnstewart80: BTW johnstewart80: whats that inquiry thing Aequitas58: it's a legal notice to the postmaster of your city that a lawyer is requesting further information (ie: who lives there, confirm the street address, etc) for the beginning of legal proceedings. Aequitas58: it's free - if you know what you're doing. :-) Aequitas58: and i do. johnstewart80: obviousl johnstewart80: y johnstewart80: lol Aequitas58: and who has NO house phone? Aequitas58: i just don't believe that johnstewart80: a single parent with 2 kids johnstewart80: thats who johnstewart80: we'll have one after we move Aequitas58: alright johnstewart80: well im going to go, gunna see if my mom is at her BF's house johnstewart80: byeAequitas58: hey there. Aequitas58: crazy - i have evidence linking you to stealing my accounts. Aequitas58: i also have your IP, which I've traced. Aequitas58: Missouri, eh? Aequitas58: we need to talk. if you're not willing, you can talk to the police, because I plan on contacting them in the very near future. johnstewart80: im here now Aequitas58: you f-ed up, bro. johnstewart80: i know... Aequitas58: you know im an attorney? Aequitas58: and you do this? Aequitas58: not smart. johnstewart80: i didnt know johnstewart80: i read it Aequitas58: doesn't matter. Aequitas58: you did it. johnstewart80: i know Aequitas58: and whats worse... Aequitas58: (seriously) ... the bank fraud via neteller. Aequitas58: they have it documented for me for the police. Aequitas58: stars told me you lost the 300 in 10 hands at 15/30. Aequitas58: the way i see it, you can either decide to cooperate, or not. if you choose not to, i can promise that you will not like the end result. johnstewart80: dont remember johnstewart80: im being VERY cooperstive bro johnstewart80: i know i fucked up Aequitas58: brb. johnstewart80: and im want to do everything i can to make it right Aequitas58: you live in St. Joseph, right? johnstewart80: thats correct Aequitas58: i have a postal inquiry sent to the St. Joseph postmaster. Aequitas58: i should get it back by the end of the week. Aequitas58: what's your phone number... i want to call you now. johnstewart80: dont have one.... johnstewart80: cell phone doesnt have minutes johnstewart80: i should soon tho Aequitas58: house phone. johnstewart80: 816075201865 johnstewart80: no house phone Aequitas58: ok. Aequitas58: that's fine. johnstewart80: (816)-752-1865 Aequitas58: what is that? cell phone? johnstewart80: yes Aequitas58: you're 18, right? johnstewart80: ill have minutes in a week or so johnstewart80: yes Aequitas58: dude, you better get yourself a phone... Aequitas58: we're talking jail time here... johnstewart80: i know this Aequitas58: bank fraud, harrassment, identity theft, cybercrimes, etc. johnstewart80: thats why i want to be as cooperstive as possible Aequitas58: not to mention wire fraud over the internet. johnstewart80: i hear you Aequitas58: Stars and Neteller have already told me they can furnish any documents i need. Aequitas58: where are your parents? johnstewart80: dont really know my dad and mom is never here Aequitas58: how am i getting my 300 back? johnstewart80: me Aequitas58: i'm not waiting, and i'm not taking a payment plan. johnstewart80: i just started a dominos job johnstewart80: and i will be full time electrician next month Aequitas58: lol - great. how can i believe you? you already hijacked my shit - you're the last person i can believe. c'mon - no phone? Aequitas58: this is just too fishy. johnstewart80: dude, i swear johnstewart80: i realized i messed up johnstewart80: you have all my information Aequitas58: why would you do that? johnstewart80: do you think i want to go to jail? Aequitas58: b/c i told you to get a job on the forum? Aequitas58: i dont know if you want to go to jail or not. i kinda think they dont have internet poker in jail, but who knows w/ the white collar crime prisons. johnstewart80: lol, pretty sure not johnstewart80: well Aequitas58: how are you planning on paying me back? johnstewart80: ill talk to my mom, shell bitch at me for a bit johnstewart80: take computer away johnstewart80: all the shit johnstewart80: and prolly write you off a check johnstewart80: then i pay her back Aequitas58: it's better that she takes it away and not the cops, because they confiscate that stuff. johnstewart80: indeed johnstewart80: brb johnstewart80: back Aequitas58: ok so here's the deal. Aequitas58: because you are willing to be cooperative, i will consider not pursuing this - even though you've caused me a shitty weekend. BUT: I want some kind of payment in the mail by the end of the week. It's Monday. talk to your Mom or whoever... Aequitas58: and get it done. Aequitas58: $300. Aequitas58: For the time being, I will also refrain from going public with this on TalkingPoker. Aequitas58: Although there are members who know what happened. johnstewart80: mayhem? Aequitas58: and know it was you. Aequitas58: there are ... probably 5 other people who know. Aequitas58: i will not give out details. Aequitas58: one poster wants me to give him your address. johnstewart80: [lou's old cell phone number] johnstewart80: that your phone? Aequitas58: no Aequitas58: that's my old phone. Aequitas58: and how do you still have my account details? johnstewart80: just the phone number Aequitas58: that's old. johnstewart80: [lou's address] johnstewart80: that too Aequitas58: that's new. johnstewart80: send ut tgere> johnstewart80: there* Aequitas58: that's where i'm at now. Aequitas58: yes, send it there. Aequitas58: as i said, you have until the end of the week. if i don't get $300 by early next week, I will stop talking to you and proceed forward. johnstewart80: if i dont see mom, i will call you, i need your phone number johnstewart80: almost sure ill see here johnstewart80: her* Aequitas58: you can reach me on AIM or via PM on talking poker. Aequitas58: i dont need to give out my number right now. johnstewart80: VERY understanble Aequitas58: it's bad enough you already have my fucking home address. johnstewart80: nothin i can do with it johnstewart80: think im flying out here? johnstewart80: there Aequitas58: i dont wanna hear it... just make sure you figure out some kind of payment. Aequitas58: if your mom prefers a cashiers check or money order, that's fine too. Aequitas58: oh - and i dont wanna hear bullshit that the money was sent, but you didn't get it. Aequitas58: make sure i get it. johnstewart80: loud and clear Aequitas58: that's it for now. thanks for the headache. johnstewart80: i know im the last person you want a tip from, but you want one ne ways? Aequitas58: go ahead. johnstewart80: [begins methodology explaing how it happened...] Aequitas58: why johnstewart80: [methodology] johnstewart80: thats all you need to gte into someones yahoo account Aequitas58: excellent. neteller was easy (you got that from yahoo, i assume) how did you get into stars? johnstewart80: stars has good security johnstewart80: sent them an email asking for the password to be reset johnstewart80: and answered like 10 questions johnstewart80: address, last 4 digits of your last deposit johnstewart80: last email address johnstewart80: first and last name Aequitas58: alright, stop talking, b/c you're pissing me off. johnstewart80: i appologize Aequitas58: we'll see how much you're sorry. johnstewart80: and beleive me or not, im sorry, VERY sorry Aequitas58: you're sorry b/c of the consequences. Aequitas58: i'm not an idiot. Aequitas58: just get done what you have to get done. talk to me later in the week. johnstewart80: no, im sorry because i thought about what i did and what a prick thing it was to do johnstewart80: BTW johnstewart80: whats that inquiry thing Aequitas58: it's a legal notice to the postmaster of your city that a lawyer is requesting further information (ie: who lives there, confirm the street address, etc) for the beginning of legal proceedings. Aequitas58: it's free - if you know what you're doing. :-) Aequitas58: and i do. johnstewart80: obviousl johnstewart80: y johnstewart80: lol Aequitas58: and who has NO house phone? Aequitas58: i just don't believe that johnstewart80: a single parent with 2 kids johnstewart80: thats who johnstewart80: we'll have one after we move Aequitas58: alright johnstewart80: well im going to go, gunna see if my mom is at her BF's house johnstewart80: bye
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![]() Last edited by Talking Poker; 05-05-06 at 03:27 AM. |
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I'm done updating for now.
A quick glance at the aftermath...* I will not pursue this with the police. He has agreed to cooperate, so I'm giving him a second chance. It was definitely a fucked up thing that he did, but paying me back (or - when I get it, since it was mailed today?) was a smart choice. Keep in mind: If I don't get the money by like... Wednesday... he's toast. ![]() I'm not going to ask that holdemstewart be banned - that's a decision that the site owner should make. I honestly don't care either way. EDITED TO ADD: Thanks to those members who kept this in confidence: Pshabi, Mayhem, JD, and TP. I think I told Zy via PM when he asked, but other than that, I don't believe I said anything to anyone else. Thanks again for keeping it on the DL... That's it for now.
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I'd personally request $600 in exchange for not pressing charges (is that legal?) to make him learn a bit more of a lesson.... what if you had 2K in your account.... then what? How would he have been able to pay you back? The situation became easy due to the reltively little amount you had in your account.
Out of curiosity, what could he be facing if convicted? (i dont mean maximum sentence, I mean what would he likely get) And does the amount stolen effect this?
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"Most of the money you'll win at poker comes not from the brilliance of your own play, but from the ineptitude of your opponents." |
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#9
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not what charges...what CONSEQUENCES for those charges
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"Most of the money you'll win at poker comes not from the brilliance of your own play, but from the ineptitude of your opponents." |
#10
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in the UK - 2-3 years for that, plus fines and fees. Depends on what AEQ can pull up.
This is the crazyest thing ive ever heard. Edited to add - "thank to eejit, for not telling people who it was too" pshabs' clue was enough |
#11
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I already figured it out.
All i wanna know is why do it, i mean you know he will notice, you cant win with $300 at 15/30. I dont get it man. I appreciate the honesty, i still think your a cock, but its good you posted. |
#12
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Stupidity and immaturity?
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