Poker Pace

bdawg31 · #1 03-02-06, 11:25 PM

i assume you are talking online - at which point i see no real reason to control your pace - other than when trying to get a call or force a fold.

Brick and Mortar - i can see using a pace. I played with a guy in the bahamas that did a three count before every decision. Some people got annoyed - i didnt care. He seemed like a pretty strong player to me. Anyway - i chatted with him afterwards - turns out that he had very little Brick and Mortar experience. He did that because he knew there would be times where he would need the extra time to think. He didnt want to give away he had a tough decision to make. Plus it helped calm him down.

I decided to take this advice to Australia. Part of my semi-bad play in Bahamas was me not calculating chips in pots, in front of others, etc. I didnt want people to know that i was doing mental math, thinking of making calls, etc. So, i set myself a pace - not real long - but maybe at least a two count or so before each decision. It helped calm me down, it helped me not make rash decisions. I think i made better decisions. With that said - as i got deeper and more nervous/excited - i think i got away from the pacing. Coincidence or not - that is when things started to fall apart.

Judging from previous posts on this string - i expect negative feedback :-). But, just wanted to put that out there.

Robbr25 · #2 03-02-06, 11:32 PM

I was wondering if someone would mention live poker in this thread.
I think it can be helpful in live poker because of the reasons you said.
You don't have the chip counts in front of you and you can do the math while you pace.
I did this once in live poker (not every time, like I did not do this when I was going to fold, only did it when I was considering playing). It worked very well in live play, I won both of the sit n gos (8 players and 6 players or so).

Boobie Lover · #3 03-02-06, 11:43 PM

It seems that whenever I do a slight hesitation before pushing all my chips in with a monster, I get called more often than if I went in instantly. With that said however, I do try to go as fast as possible whenever I make my decisions.

Talking Poker · #4 03-03-06, 01:48 AM

And this is a fine time to purposely make a small delay.

But I still say there is no good reason to delay a clear fold.... ever. Unless you are trying to save face after your bluff is reraised or something.... but when you are folding junk preflop, just fold it.

omahilo · #5 03-02-06, 11:49 PM

its not so much pace as it is doing the same thing everytime whether you got a monster or nothing.

like David Williams for example, he has a monster hand, he acts quick... if he has nothing, he acts quick.

As long as you act quick everytime regardless of the situation (unless its a monster decision) it doesnt matter.

there is also times when you want to act fast no matter how you play... like if someone goes allin and you have AA, you want to quickly call this bet because you dont want to look like your slow rolling someone and end up pissing them off.

eejit101 · #6 03-03-06, 12:05 AM

i dont get how you can justify that robbie?

1. thinking 5 seconds every hand....say you have 4 decisions in one pot, your in 25% of pots played. The tables on 120 hands an hour. Thats 30 pots at 20 seconds extra a hand, which is ten minutes. TEN MINUTES an hour of fucking around??? Come on.... stop!!

2. The more pots per hour, the more money u make, period.

3. Ive delayed a bet or an all in or something a few times, for the purposes of the image of my hand. If the flop comes down J 9 5, and i have AK, if im not making a continuation bet, ill delay my check by ten seconds, trying to make the other player think im slow playing him, giving me in effect a free card. Works well for me, but someone will disagree with that.

badblood44 · #7 03-03-06, 03:01 PM

Well, that's not entirely true. If your earn rate is a function of the quality of the decisions you make, and the quality of your decisions is a function of how much time you take, then your statement will not hold up under all conditions.

Nit picky, yes. But for some people, making quick decisions leads to making bad decisions.

Talking Poker · #8 03-03-06, 03:07 PM

I hear what you are saying, but no way does your improved decision making make up for all the 5 seconds you are wasting before folding 92 hand after hand...

PShabi · #9 03-03-06, 04:12 PM

Hey Badblood,

I think a majority of the players who "play fast" will agree with me here. Reread my post above. I said I play "as fast as possible." That means, when I have a decision I can make instantly, I do. It doesn't mean that I rush my decisions. As soon as I know what I'm going to do, I do it. Sometimes that means using the check boxes and playing "instantly." Sometimes that means taking a few seconds or more to do mental calculations or to put someone on a range of hands.

Also, being a multitabler, if I am taking 8 seconds to make a decision on one table I probably will have action waiting for me on another table. So, I'm not playing instantly all the time, or even quickly always.

Robbr25 · #10 03-03-06, 06:12 PM

Thanks for the feedback all.
By some of the points that are listed I can see that using that slow of a pace for EVERY hand can be the wrong thing to do.
I do like pshabi's point of "as fast as possible" and his explanation of not delaying once you make a decision.

Talking Poker · #11 03-03-06, 01:50 AM

That's another good point that hasn't been brough up until now. You raise preflop from UTG with AA. Everyone folds to the BB who pushes in.

If you think for 5 seconds before calling, you deserve a punch in the face when you turn your cards up. I know I'd be pissed.

bdawg31 · #12 03-03-06, 10:05 AM

Exactly. And the reason i suggest a counted pace for this is that i think (no offense to anyone) that the majority of us are better off acting on a consistent slower pace than a consistent fast pace, given our talent and experience level.

And of course there are cases where you wouldn't - like the one given above.

Talking Poker · #13 03-03-06, 01:47 AM

If you need time to count the pot, by all means, count the pot. But taking "exactly 5 seconds" every decision no matter what is stupid. That's WAY TOO SLOW when you have a clear fold in front of you, and that's too fast when you have a legitimate decision to make.

I'm talking about for a live game here. Online, it's rare that it takes me 5 seconds to make a decision, but when it does, so be it. It's not giving anything away about the strength of my hand. It's usually when deciding to call either an all in bet or a large bet on the river, when there is no action left behind me, so there are no tells to be given anyway.

When you know how you are going to act, just act.

Talking Poker · #14 03-03-06, 01:43 AM

I understand all of this..... but when UTG raises to 4x the BB and you look down to see J2o UTG+1, you don't need to count to 2, 3, or 5.... It's ok to instafold. Anything else is just slowing down the game, and it's annoying.

Imagine if everyone played like that. The average hand would take 3 or 4 minutes to complete (assuming people still took a long time when it was warranted), and I'd be looking for a new hobby.