In case any one didn't know...

[Aequitas58]

Judging by the smiley, I can only assume that you are not serious.

I can see from your perspective how it could look like dumping, but that didn't happen, nor was it anything like that. He told me the event was starting, I told him I didn't have money on Stars, he backed me for 50% of winnings if I placed (plus the buyin). We would only talk about hands w/ each other if the other person was out of the game... ie: I folded, but he's got action w/ TP, etc.

I think I hand I went in on what something ridiculous (Q-high on a gutshot draw?), but when he bet into me, I put him on a bluff. I remember liking the texture of the flop, because he missed w/ the range of hands I put him on. So, I pushed, trusting my read, and made the wrong decision. My read was incorrect (it happens!) and I was out.

Oh well.

[Aequitas58]

Back to the topic of this thread:

It's a common thing that top online tournament players (TLB leaders, etc.) play the same tournament w/ multiple accounts. If a top player is given the option of playing one account tight and solid (making that the "safety" account), he's given the freedom to play his other account more reckless by pushing his small edges. His goal is catch a few hands with the reckless account so that he's in great shape for the middle of the tournament. Again, if his plan doesn't work out with the reckless account, he always had the saftey net other account.

Anyway, you can see the dilemma. It's infinitely hard to catch these multi-account players, so more and more people do it. Now here comes JJProdigy. A good player who learned how the "system" works at the higher levels. To be competitive, you have to play with multiple accounts yourself, because there are other PROS who have 15 accounts in the weekly $215. He's unlucky enough to get caught, and now he's a scapegoat?

Morally, I think it's wrong, but then again: if I'm gambling with other people, they are cheating against me, I know about the cheating, and I know it's not being stopped, why shouldn't I cheat back?

Just the other side of the argument.

[redbank09]

your whole statement sounds so familar aque. oh yeah, thats what all of major league baseball said, they are cheating, why shouldnt i.

[JDMcNugent7]

I know u dont think like this exactly, but.. thats the same stupid reasoning JJ used... everyone else is cheating - so its suddenly okay ?
That's just dumb and he's dumb for doing it so I'm very glad they took the $ back.

[PShabi]

I see the point of the other side of the argument. But, if that was the only way I could compete, then I'd just rather not play.

JD, TP, etc who buy-in to these frequently:

How do you feel about buying into these tourneys in the future?

[JDMcNugent7]

Ya it gives them an edge, and in turn takes a small edge away from me - but not a huge edge i dont think.
It would be one thing if they could get their 2 accounts together and chip dump them to one account, giving them an obvious advantage, but since this will rarely happen, I really don't think it takes away a large amount of edge from us. Really, its just he has 2 times the chance to win, but it's not like they can see my cards or anything. Sit them at my table and I still feel fairly confident against them.

[Aequitas58]

No, I'm not saying cheating is right... but:

If I ever make serious money at poker like the top professionals, and cheating is the only way to do it, then I'll cheat. Only if, of course, I'm being cheated against. To begin with, this is gambling. Isn't it already morally wrong? If it's not, then who's to judge me and say that cheating is wrong?

Enough arguing about this - nothings going to come of it. I'm just presenting the other side. JJ got jacked for $180k, but he's got more. This isn't going to stop him or the other pros.

[Talking Poker]

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you here. I understand what you are saying, but I don't buy into it. At all. Especially your suggesting that the only way to make money at poker is by cheating. That's ludricous, and I would think you would know better.

Also, about this notion that "everyone is doing it" - I completely disagree with that too. I'm sure there are people doing it, but none that I know of. When I was in the Bahamas with dozens of the top online pros sitting in the lobby playing in big MTTs, no one was doing this. And no one was even cheating either (sharing cards, etc). Yes, people were playing as teams (5 guys railing one player and giving him advice), but that's completely, 100% different.

[GTDawg]

I don't know if I could ever convince myself that just because others are doing it that it makes it needed.

I'd rather never play poker again than think I needed to cheat like that because everybody else was doing it.

[jillaj]

Here is a question for the moral police. Which do you feel is worse? "Cheating" by playing multiple accounts in the same tourney or doing something that is illegal by the laws of your state and country?

[JDMcNugent7]

cheating by playing multiple accounts is very Obviously against the rules and as long as it is i will Never do it - i dont care how many other ppl are.

The whole poker thing being legal/ illegal is up in the air as I see it. I mean if major companies like Meryl Lynch and wutnot are investing millions into the stock of pokerstars - I don't see how it can technically still be illegal as of right now.

[BDMK]

the former, hands down. it is both illegal and highly immoral.

the latter, by many accounts, is not really illegal, let alone 'immoral'.

[redbank09]

JJ is at the final two tables of the 55 k and is gettin ripped by railbirds. btw fischman won the 109 rebuy bdawg and JD were in.

i postedthis before i saw your post about fischman TP.

[Talking Poker]

I feel better about it now. Hopefully this will make people think twice.

[bunny]

Because if you do cheat back, you'd be just as bad as they are. All good things do come to an end. The cheaters will be caught, question is will you be on good or bad (cheater) side?

If you know they are cheating against you, the wise thing to do is not play with them or report them.

[PShabi]

He wasn't serious. Anyway, you didn't bust to me in the tourney I backed you in. You put your own money up in the one you're talking about.

[Talking Poker]

Of course I wasn't serious. Well, not "of course," I guess, but no, I was not serious.

It's all good, man. If pshabi needs to cheat to win, I understand. That's just how he rolls.

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