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#1
12-22-05, 12:49 PM
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you dont want them to fold!
People always say they like playing No Limit because "you can bet and get them to fold their draws". Speaking about cash games - you do NOT want them to fold their draws. You want them to call on their draws when you bet enough that it is not profitable for them to call long-run.
Yes, after the hand plays out and they hit their draw - you wish they would have folded - but that is just your reaction to a bad result. Same with limit. Take the hand in question in this string. Lets pretend that the opponent showed his cards face up. Hawt made the bet and the opponent said - "Here is what i have, what do you want me to do, call or fold?" I am HOPING Hawt - and any other sane person - would say "By all means, call!". If you want him to fold - then how do you expect to make any money? He has FOUR outs. Are you playing just to steal blinds and make a few small pots on contination bets, even when you flop trips with top kicker? Do you want them to always fold when they have the worst hand and only call you when they have you beat? |
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#3
12-22-05, 01:45 PM
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This is a much better explanation of what I was trying to say.
But seriously, why don't more people get that? |
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#4
12-22-05, 01:51 PM
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Because it sucks when it doesn't work out like it *should*. When they miss - its great and you are a superhero, when they hit its like being kicked in the balls by a donk who clearly doesnt' know how to play cards.
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#5
12-22-05, 02:12 PM
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But see, that's just it. It "*should*" NOT work out a certain percentage of the time. That's the math behind it all. Keep making your opponents make more mistakes than you, and in the long run, you'll come out way ahead. Even with the bad beats that you have to learn to EXPECT, because they are all a part of what SHOULD happen.
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#6
12-22-05, 02:23 PM
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Mike McDermott: In "Confessions of a Winning Poker Player," Jack King said, "Few players recall big pots they have won, strange as it seems, but every player can remember with remarkable accuracy the outstanding tough beats of his career." It seems true to me, cause walking in here, I can hardly remember how I built my bankroll, but I can't stop thinking about the way I lost it. Thats why people "don't get it" regardless of how often it is meant to happen or not. You'll always feel like you got kicked in the balls until it catches back up to you.
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#7
12-22-05, 09:48 PM
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Feeling like that is fine, but at the end of the day/month/week, when your roll is bigger than when it started, I would think logic would kick in and you would realize that those bad players making their bad plays are where that money came from...
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#8
12-22-05, 10:47 PM
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Being a NL player, I think I can explain this a little better than others have been trying to
YES I want you to call on a draw when you do not have odds...regardless if you hit or not, im looking long term. YES I want you to make incorrect decisions. The PROBLEM is in limit games players often DO have proper odds to draw...not only to flush draws and straight draws, but, at times, to over cards, gutshots, backdoors with an over etc. The fact that it often becomes SHOWDOWN POKER takes a huge element out of the game. You want to FORCE your opponents to make mistakes by chasing... in limit you can not control how much u bet, so generally you cant do that. EVEN HEADS UP Say I raise preflop, and only one person calls....we'll put the blinds at 5/10 to make things easy. I raise to 20 one person calls (I'll even put him in the small blind) and the BB folds (although getting 5:1 on his money, he probably shouldnt be eliminated anyway)... there is now 50 dollars in the pot. He flops a flush draw, I can only bet 10...he is getting 6:1, he has to call. On the turn he misses, there is now 70 dollars in the pot, I can only bet 20, he is now getting 4.5: to 1, ignoring implied odds (the check call on the river if the flush comes) So at no point during the hand did I deny him proper odds, nor did I have the opportunity to thus there was nothing i could do to get him off his flush... if this were a NL game, I could of gotten a read on him, PUT HIM on the flush draw draw, made him pay an expensive (incorrect) price on the flop, and once he missed the turn most likely gotten him to fold with another large bet... thus he'd never get to see the river Not to mention the difference in strength of certain plays (continuation bets for example), and the representing hands element... Maybe that sums up a little bet what some of the NL cash game players are trying to say?
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"Most of the money you'll win at poker comes not from the brilliance of your own play, but from the ineptitude of your opponents." |
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