Winners or Losers???

[GeoffM]

I agree that folding on the river is in general going to be a very bad play to make. You cannot let someone push you off of a decent looking pot unless they REALLY push you off of it.

In sum, I am actually quite surprised (no offense to anyone) that so many of us have been so successful playing poker. I was only counting online play, and I couldn't tell you how much I have won live, but I would also say I have pulled in closer to $300-400 playing live so far this year. I am guessing a lot of you have made a helluva lot more playing live than I have, but I really only play with buddies who never really got the game as well as I did.

In any event, PenguinFan mentioned this so I would like to give you a little bit of what I find. Playing low limits, and I know you are an O8er, it is extremely difficult to beat the rake, not the players, but the rake. Every time I sit down at a table I find myself playing against it. This is exactly why I will never be loyal to 1 particular site. If a site wants to give me a bonus, I am going to jump all over it because for the most part playing low limits, I can at least break even with the rake and my bonus money is merely that, a "bonus" for hours spent playing on the site and having other people pay my rake for me.

Anyway, if Party is going to have a second reload this month (since the first one was early), it should be tomorrow .

[Talking Poker]

I was pretty surprised by this myself. Of the people who responded to the poll, I wonder how many don't have exact numbers and were just guessing... because I find that most people who don't keep records guess themselves to be slightly ahead when in fact they are (at least) slightly in the red... Everything thinks they are a good poker player, but according to my poker tracker stats (for example), most people are losers.

[GeoffM]

LMFAO!

I have only made 1 $400 withdrawal, when times were tight, so I also have the other ~$2200 (not at home, can't check) online right now. Amazingly, I was planning on taking a vacation with this money, but now I have enough to take someone else with me.

PS- In Canadian funds, this works out to being up almost $3,300 for the year, already ahead of my goal of winning $3K CDN. this year. Little bit of thanks to you TP, I have used a few links and the cash has been rolling in. New goal = $6K US , tax free baby .

Now about that porn you're sending me ...

[badblood44]

I'm not all that surprised. Even though poker is gaining popularity by the second, those who are willing and able to look at their own game and improve are still outnumbed by the donkeys. Joining and posting thoughts to a poker forum would seem to indicate rational thought and a willingness to learn - thus you have a higher than normal percentage of winning players.

Just MHO.

[junYUN]

i agree...i'd probably say most of us are at least servicable players... probably mostly break-even players trying to get over that hump. im +$1,200 so far in 2005... but most of that was made in the last 2 months... i was in the red in march.

[Talking Poker]

Absolutely... good point and "duh" on my part.

[2Tone]

I keep good, detailed stats about deposits and withdrawals, so when I say I'm in the black for well over $500 I'm able to do so with confidence. But what I'm not doing is breaking out bonus dollars, $10 party surveys, $50 transfer from TP for posting here, etc. vs. actual table wins, which is kind of cheating I suppose.

PT (which I’m still not using, with no justifiable excuse) would force me to do this. How does it handle bonus $? Are those calculated into your hourly/hand rate?

[Scamp]

Hi. Long time lurker, first time poster.

I've only been playing for about 8 months and never kept any records. I figured that I'd only deposited once and while I had more than that $100 then I was ahead. Recently, however, I was curious to know how much of my winnings were from my mad skillz and how much came from bonuses. I was pleased that not all my profit was from bonuses but disappointed to discover that from a play perspective, Party is killing me (even though I'm well in the black there). Need to fix that as it's a blemish on my otherwise respectable spreadsheet.

[GeoffM]

I honestly wouldn't even bother determining which money is from what, the bottom line is bonus money is still increasing your roll.

[PShabi]

I was pretty sure I was beat, just not positive. Pot was too big too not call down.



Texas Hold'em $3-$6 (real money), #994,973,746
Table Palmdale, 16 Jun 2005 8:25 PM ET



Seat 2: Tombennn ($77 in chips)
Seat 3: mr.lucky0 ($190 in chips)
Seat 8: elephantman6 ($1,046.50 in chips)
Seat 9: _BoomBap_ ($173.50 in chips)
Seat 10: arthurdaly ($293 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
elephantman6 posts blind ($1.50), _BoomBap_ posts blind ($3).

PRE-FLOP
arthurdaly calls $3, Tombennn folds, mr.lucky0 calls $3, elephantman6 bets $4.50, _BoomBap_ bets $6, arthurdaly folds, mr.lucky0 calls $6, elephantman6 bets $6, _BoomBap_ calls $3, mr.lucky0 calls $3.

FLOP [board cards 5C,2H,8C ]
elephantman6 bets $3, _BoomBap_ bets $6, mr.lucky0 calls $6, elephantman6 bets $6, _BoomBap_ calls $3, mr.lucky0 is all-in (disconnected).

TURN [board cards 5C,2H,8C,2D ]
elephantman6 bets $6, _BoomBap_ calls $6.

RIVER [board cards 5C,2H,8C,2D,6C ]
elephantman6 bets $6, _BoomBap_ calls $6.

SHOWDOWN
elephantman6 shows [ QH,QC ]
_BoomBap_ shows [ QS,QD ]
mr.lucky0 mucks cards [ AH,6H ]
elephantman6 wins $15, _BoomBap_ wins $15, elephantman6 wins $27.50, _BoomBap_ wins $27.50.



SUMMARY
Dealer: mr.lucky0
Pot: $87, (including rake: $2)
Tombennn, loses $0
mr.lucky0, loses $18
elephantman6, bets $33, collects $42.50, net $9.50
_BoomBap_, bets $33, collects $42.50, net $9.50
arthurdaly, loses $3

[Talking Poker]

Hey Scamp... Thanks for finally posting. We've got lots of lurkers around here that I wish would turn into active posters. Welcome!

As for your question, I don't believe PT handles bonuses at all. It is unaware of them.

[Scamp]

Thanks for having me! While I doubt that I'll be as active as a lot of the posters here, I figure that I won't improve as much as I'd like to without at least asking some questions.

For the record the PT question was actually from 2Tone.

Well it's not so much a spreadsheet as modified TiddlyWiki page, but yeah, I have a separate bonus column, just so I know.

Edited to include reply to GeoffM

[Zybomb]

Off topic, but speaking of winning.....I just had about a 30 minute poker session playing at the 3/6 NL tables (I now vary between 2/4 and 3/6) before the table broke up and I decided to make it a short and very sweet night and head to bed. My stats

During current Hold'em session you were dealt 21 hands and saw flop:
- 2 out of 3 times while in big blind (66%)
- 1 out of 3 times while in small blind (33%)
- 3 out of 15 times in other positions (20%)
- a total of 6 out of 21 (28%)
Pots won at showdown - 4 of 4 (100%)
Pots won without showdown - 2

Literally a perfect session, every single hand I didn't fold preflop I won with (never had a PFR of mine not have a caller)

Came out +$925

-Semi bluffed a 381 dollar pot with a flush draw on the turn.
-Had KK vs QQ (player was all in) 216 dollar pot
-AK vs AJ, player hit J (TP) on flop and called my continuation bet, king came on turn and called me putting him all in $434 pot
- called a PFR with 67s (4 total people in the flop) flops 668. guy with A8s bets, I raise he pushes i call.....$695
Plus two small pots, a $12 SB/BB where I bet he folded, and a $57 hand which I showed down 2 pairs aces and tens and won with 109 (A,A,3,10,7)

MAN.....on fiiiiiiiiiiiiiire

[GeoffM]

If you're keeping a spreadsheet, just have a seperate one for bonuses and deduct it from your roll to determine your poker skill.

Oh, and welcome aboard, stick around a while will ya !