Red Sox to Boycott Japan Trip

[PShabi]

I applaud the players for standing up for the coaching staff. You think the coaches aren't complaining? Not out loud, they've got the players to do that for them. And they make $100k/year and aren't even playing.

Let's say a teacher makes $40k/year. They get hired to take a senior group on a trip to DC for a week. They deserve $16k for it? No way in hell.

Now, if it was "promised" to them, they deserve it. I agree with that. But for the last time....."Wahhhhhhhhh."

[Kurn]

"deserve" is irrelevant. People are never paid what they "deserve" nor should they be. Labor is a market. people get paid what value their employer places on their labor, which is 100% an economic decision and 0% judgmental on some "higher" moral concept.

[PShabi]

Fair enough.

The way this whole thing sounds, is that someone in management misinformed the coaches about what they would be getting for the trip. I have a very hard time believing that MLB would reneg. Also, if they were renegging, then I'd expect Oakland to be upset as well. Oakland's response to the Sox sounds like, "No, we're not getting any money, were we supposed to?" This is my assuming, obv, but it seems weird.

To me, it sounds like someone in the Sox brass assumed something that wasn't true and now the players/coaches are pissed off. The Sox could pay the coaches if they wanted to, right?

Anyway, I'll bet they play those games in Japan, one way or another. What odds you want?

[Kurn]

Here's what this whole thing sounds like to me.

Remember, MLB is and has always been about which group of inmates (owners or players) controls the asylum. Recent history shows that the players usually win.

1. The players NEVER wanted to make this trip. From their point of view, its too much travel, too much of a distraction, and too alien an environment to play games that count, but ultimately, enough got talked into it that they voted to go (not unanimously)

2. MLB then decided to throw the players a bone - the $40,000. For most, that's not much more than marginal additional work for their tax accountant, but you never turn down money.

3. At some point along the line, somebody told the coaching staff that they'd get the same money, and later it turned out they wouldn't. Miscommunication? An honest error? A change of heart? We may never know.

4. Now the players feel that MLB embarrassed them (apparently so does Francona). If this were purely financial, the players could just vote to contribute some amount for the coaching staff and everybody could be happy, but considering the history of MLB, it can't be that simple.

So what we're left with is yet the next chapter in the soap opera that is MLB. And don't think for a minute that MLB's position on the steroid issue has nothing to do with this. I'm sure fehr, et. al. think ownership has hung them out to dry on that issue, so you know the Union is at least tacitly behind the players on this.

[PShabi]

[Talking Poker]

Shabi...

Say the school board came to your team and suggested you go play a couple of games in India. You don't want to go to India and your players don't want to go to India, but this would be a really good thing for the school board. So, they tell you that you will all be given some amount of money - whatever 40% of your salary worked out to be. Now you vote on it and agree (not unanimously) to go play the games in India.

The day you are supposed to leave, you find out that YOU aren't going to be getting paid an extra dime for this trip. You of course are still planning to go though, because it's in the best interest of your players and the school board that you love so much for screwing you over. But the players learn what is going on and are outraged. They insist that they aren't going on the trip unless you get paid what was promised to you.

Are you seriously telling me that your reaction to the players doing this (or that their parents or classmates or anyone else's reaction) should be to say: "Waaaaaaahhhhhhhh?"

Come on.

[Talking Poker]

As someone who is a Coach for their profession, I'm really surprised that you have pretty much the opposite reaction of everyone else in regards to this.

From the article you linked to:

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If the game had wound up being canceled, the Boston players said that they were prepared to sign autographs for all of the fans on both foul lines. It never came to that.

"These guys are outstanding guys, they're standup guys," Red Sox bench coach Brad Mills said of the players. "They do what's right. That's what makes them great ballplayers as well."

Even the Blue Jays were touched by the lengths the Red Sox went to fight for their staff.

"You don't expect to see that, but I was kind of glad it happened and I was kind of impressed with those guys," said Blue Jays manager John Gibbons. "Not only are they a very talented team, they've got something special over there. That's a team. They stuck their necks out for the coaching staff -- those guys they admire and stand by --- and that helps us all. There's only two teams that can get away with that: Boston and New York. That's good to see."

Youkilis spent time during the pregame hours discussing the situation with Vernon Wells, who is the player rep for Toronto. The Jays' players were understanding of the situation and didn't balk at the game starting later than scheduled.

Red Sox right-hander Curt Schilling had made it clear how important the issue is to the players.

"They're part of this team," Schilling said of Francona and the coaches. "They're as important as the players in our mind."
Red Sox hitting coach Dave Magadan was touched by the support from the players.

"To see how the players backed us and how they feel about the work that we do, that meant a lot," Magadan said. "It means a lot. Sometimes we feel like you can have a thankless job, but when things like that are done, you really appreciate and get a feeling for how the players feel about us."

Francona said it was his understanding that the managers and coaching staffs of the Yankees and Rays received stipends for their season-opening trip to Tokyo in 2004.

To Francona, the matter was a lot more about the coaches than himself.
"For a coach, this is, in some cases, two-fifths of their salary for the year," Francona said. "This is a big deal. I don't agree that coaches are second-class citizens. That has never sat well with me, ever."
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Not exactly "Waaaaaahhhhh" - IMO, anyway. I applaud the Sox players for how they handled this.

[PShabi]

Tough comparison. My stipend is less than 8% of my total income for the year. I work all year as a coach. I make WELL UNDER minimum wage as a coach. If I walked into work on Monday, and they said, "Sorry, Phil. There's been some budget cuts. We can't pay you to be our coach anymore, but you can still do it for free," I'd take the job as soon as the last word came out of their mouths.

Teaching is my profession. It pays the bills. Coaching is my "2nd job" that barely makes me any money, but it improves every aspect of my life and in turn improves the lives of the kids I'm around.

I'd love to coach D1 college ball someday. There are plenty of stories about guys making it to that level via the same path I'm on right now. If it happens, great. If not, I'm happy right where I'm at.