CB: General theory question

[Zybomb]

As you move up in limits, players thinking levels move up

Low Limit: Flop T44, Player A CBets AK because flop likely did not hit opponent, Player B folds bc flop missed him

High Limit: Flop T44, Player A CBets AK because flop likely did not hit opponent, Player B raises because flop likely did not help PFR

Notice how player B is playing his cards in Low Limit and his opponents card in High Limit. In some games (high or low limit) when players are simply not content of calling a PFR and just check folding if they miss, CBs are not as effect as in a game where players are playing ABC poker

[melioris]

I appreciate what you said, but it doesn't really address my question.

I was asking something along the lines of if player B is going to raise your CB and put in you an uncomfortable position in a larger pot, and because aggression is so valued these days player B will most likely fire if the flop gets checked, it is better to allow player B to bluff into you (and still keeping the pot smaller than if you got c/r on the flop) when you can only beat a bluff instead of continually CBing?

[Invigilator]

this would be very read (of the player) specific I imagine. If you missed and it goes check-check, then there is another card to account for. It would be much more difficult to know where you stand in that case.

[Wes]

If you aren't good at guessing what a person's hand range is without brute force, don't use what I'm suggesting. Just realize that you are limiting yourself as a player.

[Invigilator]

I'm not rejecting the idea. I'm just saying that check calling (to bet the turn) or setting out check-raising is trickier and riskier than CBing in terms of long term positive value.

[Wes]

You mean variance, not long term value.

[Invigilator]

So are you saying that the long term value is still good, but the swings will be bigger along the way with the riskier play?

(if not clarify the two terms for me)

[Zybomb]

By check calling with AK you are putting money into the pot (with no hand) without giving your opponent a chance to fold. Yes maybe he is stabbing, but villian is also betting all Tens and all PPs as well and this gives us no notion about where we are in the hand. Before I say I do not like this idea, I want to hear your plan for the rest of the hand if you check the flop (i.e what do you do if he bets the flop, whats your turn plan river plan etc). Depending on your answer, I may like or dislike this

[melioris]

There is no right answer as it is very situational. My original question was specifically addressing The Storm's (he will always be BL to me) assertion auto CBing can be a leak, asking him if it means against certain opponents he must be willing to call down thin. I then asked, more generally, if against certain types of opponents the loss of information by not CBing might be more than offset by exploiting aggressive tendencies. Yes, it depends on hand reading and your confidence in your ability to think at a higher level than your opponent, but as the games get tougher and more aggressive, could the supposition that aggression (usually a good thing although usually pretty predictable) can be used against some opponents warrant not CBing automatically.

My reply (that you quoted in the response I am quoting above) was to clarify my thinking. Clearly I was not communicating effectively as your reply about player thinking at "low limit" and "high limit" poker in relation to CBing missed my point. Getting into the example seems a little silly, as it is so situational. I can create scenarios with specific opponents that I would call down with AK unimproved, and you can create many examples where that is a huge leak. But the core of my comments was to validate some thoughts I have been having lately that as the online games evolve it is prudent to examine some long held notions in order to stay ahead of the competition. TP's first post in this thread probably accurately represents my thoughts on CBing right now, but I haven't actually thought if that is the best way to play in a long while. Recently I started to think about it and thus Storm's comments struck a nerve.

So I ask you, do you think CBing AK on a T44 flop is always the right move in a HU pot? This question seems to get to the heart of where this thread is at currently.