Kill Phil Experiment (this is long - sorry)

[Kurn]

Long before there was Kill Phil, there was SNG push/fold theory that is the basis for the numbers in SNGPT. I can't for the life of me remember what the theory was called, but it was developed from a study done at USC.

The basis is late in a SNG the value of your hand is a combination of fold equity + showdown equity (duh), but when pushing for all (or almost all) of your opponents' stacks, fold equity is huge. So if you can accurately assess calling ranges, you can choose the correct push range that will aways be +EV.

[MAYHEM45]

I think what you are looking for is called ICM. It stands for Independent Chip Modeling.

[Kurn]

That's it. Thanks.

[Zybomb]

So this Kill Phil theory, is very similiar to the tournament strategy in David Sklansky's Tournament Poker, that he gave to the player who didn't know much about how to play right??

[Talking Poker]

I haven't read ity yet, but I think it's the same idea, only much more comples, taking into account obviously important issues like stack size and position. As I recall, Sklansky's system was "Push with these hands. Fold the rest."

[bdawg31]

Yes, they took his strategy and expanded upon it - they credit him in the book. They create their Kill Phil Beginner - which is basically Skalansky's simple system - and i think they added KK early on (with the AA) due to looser players since the boom of poker (skalansky wrote his system before the poker boom i believe).

Then they take it steps further. They take position into account, your stack size (relaive to the cost per round). That is still mechanical. Then they talk about ways to tweak it so you are playing some poker.

Its a fairly easy read. If anything - for a good player to read this book might be helpful to just understand the power of aggression.

I was just curious to see how it worked. And i wanted to incorporate super-aggression into my middle game. I just tried it in a MTT. I played normal early on - built my usual small gain. Then mid-way i went into the system. I got 10s on the BB. There was a raise from late position so system says push - and i did. The guy raising was playing like a maniac - so i felt good. He called with A10 and caught the Ace naturally. I would have been curious to see how things progressed if that held up. I will try some more.

[bdawg31]

sorry if this is boring to most - but i am a boring person.

Anyway, i wont bore you with the notes - most flow the same. I ended up in 3rd in this one. So after 5 tries - i have 0 wins, 1 2nd and 1 3rd. Even money minus the $5 buy in fees. And one of those losses i screwed up the system late - so who knows how that would have turned out.

[Zybomb]

bdawg have you read The Poker Tournament Theory by Arnold Synder?

Im half way through the book, but it brings up a lot of tournament positional plays (to learn them, he even advised playing your hands blind for a few low buy in tournaments) then he incorperates your cards, and then your stack size. So far a very interesting read.

The basic principle was that

Preflop:

Positions 1-5: Fold
Position 6: If folded to you raise if not fold
Position 7: If folded to you raise if not fold
Position 8: If folded to you raise. If the pot is limped, then limp. Call any standard (3-4x BB) raise. Fold to large raises
SB: Fold unless folded around to you
BB: Check if limp pot, fold to all raise, if only the SB limps in raise

The key is to be likely last to act postflop in every circumstance.

Postflop goes as follows

If you are checked to bet.
If they bet, fold

If they check call and check the turn, bet again (sometimes all in)
If they check and raise then fold

He noted that this was for typical "fast" tournaments and not slow paced ones or cash games. He challenged you could likely get further in some tournaments playing this way than normally. After mastering the positional game, he then adds in the cards to the mix , as well as chip stacks. Interesting read thusfar