|
|
|
|
#2
12-23-04, 11:12 PM
|
||||
|
||||
Not sure if this is what TP means, but if you have a good hand (same 2nd pair, top kicker). If you would put one bet in to see if your hand is best, but don't want to be put in the situation where you throw out a bet and are raised, then check with the intention of calling.
TP's example said you were out of position, so say the flop came KJ2 rainbow, and you hold AJ. You were only up against 1 player so you bet the flop, and to continue to be aggressive and bet the turn (discussed earlier). Other player has just been calling along the whole way. Do you want to bet out here (even assuming no draws could have hit) to find that he has been letting you bet KKK, JJJ, 222, xxx, xxx, KJKJ, etc, etc. If he hit a set on the flop, and the board wasn't threatening to a straight or a flush, he might gladly do this and then you have put yourself in a position to pay him 2 bets on the river. Also assume you didn't improve, what about that player who called your preflop raise with K9 and is calling along with TP ok kicker. Again you pay them off twice. Not sure if this is what TP was getting at, but I see this a lot at low limits. |
|
#3
12-24-04, 12:33 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
It's simple. Once you understand it and start to see it in action, I know you will agree it is the single best piece of limit advice someone has given you, and you won't believe you didn't think of this yourself.
Remember, you are heads up on the river and you are the first to act. Say you have top pair with a decent kicker or something like that - not the nuts, but something you're definitely not going to fold either. Let's look at your choices and what can happen: Ok, I started typing up the varius scenarios, and it started looking too confusing. It's not, so I'll just try to type it out. Basically, there's no reason for you to bet here. If you bet and he has a great hand, he's going to raise, and you're going to lose two bets instead of one (had you checked and then called). If he has a bad hand (like if he missed a draw) and you bet - he's going to fold. So you're not going to win any more by betting than by checking. As a bonus, by checking, you get to see his cards and learn something about him. Ok, now here is the key to this whole thing and what makes this play so great. A lot of times, when you check, he will bet here, regardless of what he has! Second pair, a missed draw, it doesn't matter. If he senses any weakness, he's going to bet (bluff) here, and you're going to call and win an extra bet! Get it? Yes, there are times when he will check a good hand behind you that is worse than yours (you could have won another bet by betting), but those are greatly outweighed by how many extra bets you will win (and save) from the above scenarios. I hope I explained this ok. It's a thing of beauty, is it not? Last edited by Talking Poker; 12-24-04 at 12:35 AM. |
|
#4
12-24-04, 12:46 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
P.S. I realize this is a fairly basic concept, and many of you probably do this al the time (I do), but I remember how fantastic I thought this was once I figured it out and wished I had learned it sooner. I believe betting the river with a medium strength hand is one of the biggest mistakes newer players make. I see it happen all the time.
This goes for being second to act too. I explained it above with you in early position, but it's pretty much the same thing if you are last to act. If he checks to you, unless you have a monster, just check. Most of the time, if you bet, he's only going to call (or raise!) with a hand better than yours. If he has a bad hand (like a missed draw), he's gong to fold and you don't win any more anyway. And yes, of course you should value bet here if your opponent is a major calling station and is likely to call you with 3rd or 4th pair. Everything in poker is situational... I'm just talking generally, against your average opponent or someone you know nothing about. |
|
#5
12-24-04, 04:24 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
What, no response?
This is some good stuff here, people! Surely someone has something to say!
I know - it's Christmas Eve. I'm on my way out right now, in fact... |
|
#6
12-24-04, 09:33 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yeah TP, I have been using that play as of late. I remember when it "came to me" at that moment like you describe. Great peice of advice.
I still haven't heard many opinions on my more important, regular occuring, dilemma. Today, I raise with AK, get a raggedy flop and bet the flop, only to have the BB call me. He checks the turn, I bet, which I hadn't been doing, he calls. Now, he checks the flop, and I bet again, with no pair, becaue I will lose if I check it down. He calls. I'm beaten with K3, the 3 was the low pair on the flop. I'm starting to feel like the checking it down if my flop bet doesn't take the pot is a better play. Players are 2/4 are going to call you down with low pair and an overcard. Lost 4 bets and if a King hits, I'm in even more trouble. I truly have no idea what to do in this situation. I'm just going to go with feel and vary my play to meet the situation/player/feel of the game, etc. |
|
#7
12-24-04, 09:56 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
How often do you play aggressively in a situation like this holding just two overcards? Could it be that you try to make a play like this too much? Sometimes you just have to lay down the high cards when nothing hits.
__________________
"When I cut my finger, that's a tragedy. When you fall down a manhole and die, that's a comedy." -- Mel Brooks |
|
#8
12-24-04, 11:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
That was the whole discussion of the thread from the beginning. This strat was suggested to me and I tried it today. It would be easier if you read through the first couple of posts.
Nutshell: Raise pre flop by me with say AK, close out the field and I've got the blinds. Blanks fall, they check I bet out to try and win, get called by one. They check turn, what do I do? Usually, I check, they bet river, I fold, lose. Gotta better idea? My tone isn't jerky, just in a hurry, responses appreciated |
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
