Rip my pt numbers apart (comments please)

[nutbag]

Couldn't wait until 20,000, getting anxious. This is limit 6-max, I'll let you guess the limit. Sorry for the ghetto posting, no excel. I've not been running incredibly well, but is vpip too high? aggression numbers to low? Anything else seem wieird?

Any other numbers I should post?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Total hands
11,849

VPIP
41.36

VPIPSB
60.1

folded sb to steal
73.3

Steal attempts
26.7

Won$wsf
37%

Amount
612 bb blinds (can't make it that easy to figure out)

BB100
5.13


Went to SD%
38.01

won$atsd
53

Pfraise
14.74

Total rake
Unbelievable

Aggresion numbers
pf .51

Flop: 2.44

Turn: 1.78

River: 1.13

Total: 1.12

Checkraise
%of actions 1.44

Flop 37%

Turn 7%

River 3.46

[eejit101]

limits guess 1/2??

otherwise half these num,bers make no frickin sense to me!

[PShabi]

Holy Fuck!

Over 40% VPIP? Shit loosey!

And you're winning over 5BB/100!!!!! WTF?

If you don't tell me this is 1/2 I'll quit poker forever.

[JDMcNugent7]

alright i want to figure this stuff out.
What does it all mean ? Is there anyone who can real quick go through and tell me what each thing means ?

That would be totally awesome.

[eejit101]

me 2, im as lost as jessica simpson in a library

[PShabi]

This is copy/pasted from elsewhere, so don't think I like you guys enough to type all this shit out.

Anyway, the definitions will follow but don't get too much into the average ranges given. Those are for FULL RING at microlimits. Nutbags stats are 6-max and the ranges are significantly different.

VPIP: voluntarily put $ in pot (%). There is no sweet spot for this number, but the typical range is between 15 and 20. A few posters manage with sub-15 VPIP's and a few posters manage with VPIP's in the low 20's. As you move up, this number will often drop a point or two. Your VPIP will not be uniform across all positions. You should generally be tighter in EP than in LP.

PFR: preflop raise (%). The typical range is 7-10. A few posters exceed 10, but many posters begin their first 10K hands at or below 7. Some suggest that PFR should be half your VPIP, but that's an effectual coincidence and should not be your goal. If you only have a VPIP of 13 or 14, you will still often have the same PFR of 8-9 as someone with a higher VPIP. Your PFR will often be higher in LP than in EP.

VPIP from SB: typical range 25-35. This stat varies greatly by your table selection. If you typically play at passive games, you can expect this to be on the higher end. If you are in aggressive games, it will be lower. If its much lower than 25, you are missing out on a few profitable situations for the partial price. If its much higher than 35, you are probably playing too often and underestimating the difficulties of playing out of position postflop. Consult a starting hand chart for more information.

Saw flop all hands: This is an effect stat of your VPIP's and your table selection. It is often about 5% higher than your VPIP. Discussion at 2+2 primarily involves the VPIP stat rather than this one.

Steal defense: At the micro limits, this situation occurs very rarely and you will generally not have a significant sample size even after playing 20K hands. It is much better to focus on specific hands for defending situations as its often highly opponent dependent.

Attempt to steal: This situation occurs a bit more frequently than steal defense, but still it will not be too common until you hit the higher end of the micro limits. This number will often be in the mid-upper 30's, but will vary depending on your table selection and overall aggressiveness.

WSD: went to showdown. This number typical falls into the 28-32 range, but varies by your style. It is helpful in identifying potentially major leaks and too high a number often represents overly loose play on the big streets. Too low a number often represents a "fit or fold" mentality where you give up on too many profitable situations by ignoring the pot size.

WSF: won $ when saw flop. By coincidence, this number also falls into the 28-32 range. It is mostly an effect stat. If it is very high (35+) you may be running well. A number below 28 may indicate a problem with protecting your vulnerable hands or folding too many winners. Like many stats, a specific number does not indicate a specific problem, only that there may be one and you should be posting hands where you had difficult postflop decisions.

W$SD: won $ at showdown. Varies between 50-58. Below 50 often indicates that you are seeing too many showdowns while a number which is too high may indicate that you are folding too many winners. In limit Holdem, a pot is often quite large on the end, thus you often need to be quite sure that you don't have the best hand to make folding on the end correct.

FRB: folded to river bet. Varies between 40-55. This stat is pointless to analyze by itself. In combination with WSD or W$SD, it may indicate a problem of folding too much on the end (or not enough). As long as its not incredibly low or high, there are better ways to spend your time.

AF: aggression factor. This is an arbitrary number representing the relative frequency of which you are the aggressor on each street. The numbers vary greatly by your style and posting specific hands is generally better to determine if your aggressiveness is appropriate. VPIP/PFR account for your preflop aggression, so generally ignore AF - PF. Your postflop aggression will typically be around 2 - 3 on each postflop street. The flop is often higher than the turn and river, often exceeding 3.0. A micro posters overall AF (not including PF) will typically be in the 2.0 - 3.0 range. Some posters report success with overall AF's over 3, but nearly none have AF's under 2. This is not a stat worth overanalyzing unless it is woefully low or maniacally high.

when folds (%): This is not a stat worth overanalyzing as its speaks nothing of the appropriateness of your actions. Typical numbers may look something like this, but the range of "appropriate" numbers could be quite wide. (no fold: 12 _ PF: 75 _ flop: 8 _ turn: 3 _ river: 2).

check-raises: This is often in the 1% to 2% range of all possible actions. It is not worth analyzing this stat to decide if you are "check raising enough". Post hands to do that.

Win-rate: The number everyone is concerned about and the number we can do nothing about. Be happy with anything above 0 BB / 100 hands. The measure used is big bets per 100 hands. This accounts for multi-tabling and limit differences whereas $/hr gives you no real indication of success. Don't fret with something below 0 BB/100 if you have a small sample size. Variance and downswings happen and they can be quite large (200+ BB losses) and extend over a long period of time (10K+ hands). Your winrate will decrease as you move up in limits. Since its asked all the time, a 3 BB/100 winrate at .50/1.00 (online) is often regarded as great. 6 BB/100 is probably unsustainable. Once you reach 2/4 (online), 2 BB/100 is great for the long term and 4 BB/100 may be unsustainable. Also, you will be a loser from the blinds. The blind commitment is too great to overcome by solid play.


Now you know what they mean. The hard part is figuring out what the hell your stats mean to you.

[nutbag]

Yeah, I'd be buying a house in a few months if this was 5/10 or better. 1/2 at party. But it's such stable money, I think I'm actually making more 4 tabling 1/2 instead of 3 tabling 3/6. My money here is coming from two words. Guess those? starts with a V.

Pshab (and others??), you're doing party 3/6 right? what kind of VPIP are you keeping nowadays? How do your checkraises compare to mine?
Do you recommend moving up?

[JDMcNugent7]

sweet man, thx SHab

[PShabi]

Actually, I only "party" during bonuses right now but I'm going to start playing there again exclusively. Hopefully this weekend. I like Interpoker and I play UB, but that shit's been tough over there lately. I'll take a look at all of my stats later but my VPIP is only in the 23 range. I think I raise 17 or 18 preflop.

You have to be playing good poker with that winrate, but you have to realize that variance has been on your side a bit at least. 10k hands is pretty insignicant, but I have heard of people winning 4+BBs at that level for a more substantial amount of hands.

But playing that loose preflop and winning at that rate seems to be an indication of running GOOD AS A MOTHERFUCKER! You can play looser than I do, don't go me wrong. I'd like to find a way to be playing at 26/27, but I just don't know how.

As for moving up, I know you tried it once and struggled. Was the game that much different from 1/2? Anything major you noticed?

[JDMcNugent7]

Wut EXACTLY does it mean to win 3bb/100.
mine was like .75/100 , is that bad ?

[nutbag]

Yeah, it's a completely different game. I was running at 8 for the first 8000, so I know i'm running well, but I think that 4-5 is easily sustainable at this limit. I think I'm able to keep my vpip up because i'm just so much better postflop that most 1/2 players(everybody who has a clue moves up after a while) . Getting pot odds and value betting are just so easy here.

I reread Small stakes hold em and it pretty much is all just a repeition of this one sentence. Put money in when your (percepted) pot equity is high enough, and manipulate your positon if possible. That helped me when before I always fell into thinking I deserve this pot, and i'm going to bet like it (which is just idiotic and lost me alot of money).

Moving up to 3/6, I think that there's still maniacs out there, but I'm not able to value bet as much as 1/2. I think the average 3/6 6maxer still has pretty atrocious preflop standars, but is much improved postflop. Thus playing 35-40 yeilds alot less value. I've taken stabs and am running better, but 4tabling 1/2 is great stable money at the moment (and my only income), so not to much in a hurry to move up.

Although I don't think i'm running tooooo well, it'll be interesting to see what the next few thousand bring.

[nutbag]

You're playing 1/2 NL mostly right?

So per 100 hands you play you make $1.50 (2x.75) . But this stat has so much more variance in nl, it's not that dependable until you get an assload of hands. But for long term, unless you're playing 40/80 or higher, that's pretty bad, yes.

[Talking Poker]

I'm not saying my numbers are right and yours are wrong, but I am a solid winner at 6 max, so I think my numbers are pretty decent. I'm going to go through your post now and simply say if mine are significantly higher or lower. Maybe you'll be able to get something out of that.

[nutbag]

Yeah. I was going to mention turn checkraises. Since you're at 5/10 or higher, you're (usually) going to get much more respect for those, but when do you normally do them?

Are alot of them against overagressive players who opened preflop? Or is it more with top pair, when you hit two pair, etc. I just always think that value betting is better and have trouble picking times to chekcriase.

What percentage of that 70 do you think you are bluff chkraising?

So you're basically raising reraising with whatever you're playing. I been wondering if i should change this, but I'm making so much money when I catch a an ace or a king when some mongoloid calls me down when he hits a 10 with 10 4 in the small blind, and I think I'd lose alot of value trying to drive those hands out preflop.

BTW. If these numbers aren't just from me running well and are sustainable to a certain degree, I think my current style would get me killed at 5/10 and your style would reduce you expectation at 1/2. Would you agree or disagreee?

[JDMcNugent7]

nutbag - i dn something must be whack with my numbers - This sample on PT is from me playing $1/2 mainly, and winning $800 in 8 days, probably 25 hours or so. I don't see how that could correspond with $1.5/100 hands. I dont really even multi-table. I guess my numbers are just wrong.

SO people are saying that 2bb/100 is good ? For every 100 hands winning $4 is good ? Seems pretty damn low and easy to do.

[PShabi]

Limt or No Limit?

Anyway, BB/100 is better used to gauge winrate in limit games. It's more accurate and consistent than $/hour stats. 2BB/100 is considered very solid. It's kind of been made the benchmark (Right or wrong) for limit players to shoot for. If you're making anything above 0BB/100 over a substantial amount (50k min?) you're doing a nice job. Because, the fact is, there's not many who can do even that.

BTW, at 6-max, you can see 100 hands/hour on most tables. So $4/100 hands on 4 tables is $16/hr. Not to mention the rakeback that serious limit players get and you're making even more. Think about the crazy bastards who 6-8 table!!!

Doesn't seem like much, especially for youse kids.

[nutbag]

Chec to make sure you've got all your hands from all your sights and skins imported. Plus tracker doesn't include bonsus and other extra money.

[eejit101]

Ok, i understood most of that, thanx for the help, Pshabi and Nutbag and TP.
2 questions...

1. Where do i get this software?
2. I just play and if i win i win. Im not thinking enough long term. Where do i learn the patience you guys have to 4 table for 10 hours a day and make the $$ i could be earning while im working, but im a comfier chair and with the possibility of much, much more? I have learnt patience well during the year, but i need more for cash games, any advice? or do i just learn as i go, and when the $$$ start coming, realise the goldmine of fish entrails i could be living in ??

[nflchad]

1. Bottom of this page, theres a banner, the software is $55 but if your serious about playing it's well worth the money.
2. If you have no patience then mullti-tabling is a good thing for you, it allows you to keep busy while earning more $ (assuming your a winning player).

[SirFWALGMan]

I agree with everyone that 40% is a high VP%IP, buuuutttt in 6-MAX your VP$IP should be higher than in 10-sided. You play more hands, because with less people, your moderately strong hands gain strength. I would not think low 30% would be bad for 6-Max. I have an 18% VP$IP. I play 10-sided ring though. NL. I am a tight bastard. At 25/NL there is no reason to not just nut hunt.

[PShabi]

I don't believe anyone on this site is 4 tabling 10 hours a day.

I just two, sometimes three, table 3/6. And that's only 3 hours a day or so.

[nutbag]

Yeah, I'm up to five or six hr's a day at four (I better play a bunch of tables if i'm still at the baby limits), but realized just how difficult it is to keep focused. If all those nuts who say they 6-8 table 8 hours a day are telling the truth, that impresses me and scares me at the same time.

TP, you might have lost my question earlier about turn stuff/agression. Take a glance for me if you get the chance, thanks.

[Talking Poker]

I don't know that low 30s is "bad," but I do know that I'm 27-28% and that works for me.

[Talking Poker]

Yes, I did forget about this. I didn't reply right away because it's a lot of questions

Anyhoo.... as you saw, I don't check raise all that much, and when I do, it's on the turn. When there are multiple players in the pot, my check raises are very position dependent, depending on what I am trying to accomplish with them. Examples:

1. Say there are 3 of us and I am UTG with a vulnerable hand (TT overpair, for example). If I think Player 2 will check and Player 3 will bet, then I will check raise to eliminate Player #2. If, however, I think the player to my immediate left will bet/raise, I would lead out and let him raise to eliminate Player 3.

2. Same 3 players, but this time ,I have JdTd and the flop was As9d8d. I have a monster draw. Here, I want to build the pot, so I play it exactly the opposite. If I think Player 2 will check, I bet out and squeeze him. When Player 3 raises, I can reraise and really build this pot. This is especially good with even more players in the hand. However, if I think Player 2 would bet/raise, I check raise, because I don't want him driving out the player(s) behind him with a raise. Make sense?

I don't know that that really answers your question, but that covers most of my flop check raises. Heads Up, I usually wait for the turn and do it with very strong hands.

I bluff checkraise on the turn very rarely. The only time I would do that is with a sick looking board that I'm almost certain my opponent missed. It's dangerous too, because when you get reraised, you're done with the hand. And it won't work against weak opponents. They will gladly call with their KJ here. I really don't do this much, but I will do it against certain types of players.

As for your last statement/question, I'm not sure. I'd like to think I'd do just fine at 1/2. In fact, I think my numbers would be much better there, because my advantage (making less mistakes than my opponents) would be even higher. I don't know how you would do at 5/10...

[PShabi]

My check/raise % was slightly lower than Nutbags. But a high% of those actions were on the flop.

Most of my check/raises are in a situation like #1. I find myself in that situation a lot.