My first post, and the worst beat I've ever seen.

[zempf]

Hey, been reading here for a while & figured I'd register & share this - I think this is one of Party's cheapo $5 MTTs (from about 2 months ago). I've got this saved in my email so I can marvel at it from time to time.

***** Hand History for Game 1432919395 *****
50/100 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 8652123) - Thu Jan 13 21:49:59 EST 2005
Table Three-Table(210556) Table 1 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: yzermanbrett (485)
Seat 2: mrseich (2035)
Seat 3: zeethree (485)
Seat 4: jmpremo (2870)
Seat 5: pmixyzz (1495)
Seat 6: bb1106 (820)
Seat 7: jaygarth (1120)
Seat 8: Ecneb (1385)
Seat 9: terryjlorenz (705)
Seat 10: zempf (975)
zempf posts small blind (25)
yzermanbrett posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to zempf [ Th, 7d ]
mrseich folds.
zeethree folds.
jmpremo folds.
pmixyzz folds.
bb1106 raises (100) to 100
jaygarth calls (100)
Ecneb folds.
terryjlorenz calls (100)
zempf folds.
yzermanbrett calls (50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ks, Td, Kc ]
yzermanbrett checks.
bb1106 checks.
jaygarth checks.
terryjlorenz bets (50)
yzermanbrett calls (50)
bb1106 calls (50)
jaygarth calls (50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5c ]
yzermanbrett checks.
bb1106 checks.
jaygarth bets (175)
terryjlorenz raises (555) to 555
terryjlorenz is all-In.
yzermanbrett calls (335)
yzermanbrett is all-In.
bb1106 raises (670) to 670
bb1106 is all-In.
yzermanbrett: not a bad flop...
jaygarth folds.
** Dealing River ** : [ 5h ]
Creating Main Pot with $1805 with yzermanbrett
Creating Side Pot 1 with $440 with terryjlorenz
Creating Side Pot 2 with $115 with bb1106
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1805 | Side Pot 1: 440 | Side Pot 2: 115
Board: [ Ks Td Kc 5c 5h ]
yzermanbrett balance 0, lost 485 [ Kd Ts ] [ a full house, Kings full of tens -- Kd,Ks,Kc,Ts,Td ]
mrseich balance 2035, didn't bet (folded)
zeethree balance 485, didn't bet (folded)
jmpremo balance 2870, didn't bet (folded)
pmixyzz balance 1495, didn't bet (folded)
bb1106 balance 2360, bet 820, collected 2360, net +1540 [ 5s 5d ] [ four of a kind, fives -- Ks,5s,5d,5c,5h ]
jaygarth balance 795, lost 325 (folded)
Ecneb balance 1385, didn't bet (folded)
terryjlorenz balance 0, lost 705 [ Qh Kh ] [ a full house, Kings full of fives -- Kh,Ks,Kc,5c,5h ]
zempf balance 950, lost 25 (folded)

[Talking Poker]

That's a pretty good one. At least they weren't all in preflop. Can't really blame the guy with the 5s for playing it the way he did (he didn't know he was on a 1 out draw on the turn).

Reminds me of this beat I wrote about a while back (from the 2004 WSOP):

[junYUN]

TP just read that thread...i can't imagine the feeling of getting sucked out on that badly in the WSOP of all places.

[Kurn]

I'm tempted to say that this isn't a bad beat at all, rather an object lesson on why you don't limit-raise in a no-limit game.

[zempf]

Actually, the dude who flopped the full house didn't make a single bet of his own, just called everyone else's bets. I'd still say it's a bad beat because 5-5 was the ONLY way he was going to lose, but he also played this so weakly that he was asking for it.

[Kurn]

Wow, I just reread the original post. I missed the fact that it was the guy with 55 that raised preflop.

After that, it's hard to find much fault with his play. he calls the weak flop action getting 11:1 (implied odds plus the times he's ahead make this OK), then on the turn, nobody has given him cause to think he doesn't have the best hand.

Besides, the guy who flopped the boat could have lost to 3 Q's on the river, too, but I agree it's a tough beat to take, and also tough to not slowplay the flopped boat.

[Zybomb]

Its very tough to bet out when every card that flopped hits your hand and you make a boat. In fact Id go as far as to say it's incorrect 99.9% of the time (the only time being if your opponent expects you to bet regardless and senses a trap by your check...and if you have that kind of respect at the table then you probably dont need my advice). The reason being is that chances are no one was helped, so if you fire right away you are most likely gunna pick up a small pot unless someone tries to steal raise you, where as if you check you are giving someone a chance to catch a card they will bet/call with, or giving them a chance to bet at the flop trying to pick it up. Especially with a flop like K,10,K and you hold K,10, there is no 1 card that can come on the turn that can beat you (unless an ace hit thes turn and someone is holding aces in the hole, which by the action shown is next to impossible), so its very difficult not to check and give an opponent a chance to try and steal on the flop, or catch a card on the turn. Furthermore in this case the made boat had someone betting into him from the beginning.

Very tough beat

[Zybomb]

Sorry I also didnt consider if someone was holding KQ or KJ, and a Q or J hit

[Zybomb]

I sent that before I wanted to....... the thing with hands like KJ or KQ or watever is that checking isnt giving them a free card to beat you, because regardless if you bet or check they are going to still be in the hand on the turn to catch their card. 99 times out of 100 , 3 kings with a queen kicker is not going to fold to a rainbow k,k,10, , so if they are going to catch a Q and make their full house its going to happen anyway, check or bet.

[Kurn]

Let me clarify. In my original reply, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't a bad beat. I misread the original post (one reason I hate posting raw hand histories) and thought the guy who flopped the boat was the one who limit-raised preflop. In that context, I thought he set himself up to be called by too many hands. Then the flop action is so wimpy that you really can't fault the guy with 55 for calling, and on the turn he has zero reason to not think his hand is good.

Once I realized that it was the 55 guy who minraised, my entire perception of the hand changed.

[Zybomb]

Yea I agree 100% about the limit raie in NL. Minimum raises in NL make no sense, if I've already limped in, or I am in the big blind, I will never fold to a minimum raise no matter what two cards I have, unless the blinds are ridiculously high. I think minimum raises are pointless because they encourage callers, (and even if you hold AA you do not want to encourage multiple callers....the only time this MAY make sense is with a strong drawing hand like J10s etc)...

[Gordogg]

That is true. But is it not better to bet and give him worse odds than not betting and giving him infinite odds?

[Zybomb]

Not when 97% of the time you have the best hand and will have the best hand throughout....you are most likely picking up the pot when every single card helped you and more than likely didnt help your opponent. By not betting you now give him a chance to try and steal bet the flop, and a chance to catch a card thatll make him bet or call on the turn. If you opponent catches a card that will beat you, chances are even if you bet you would of only lost more money because they'll call your bet anyway

Furthermore if you always bet your strong hands, whenever you do check your opponents will know they can pick up the pot right there since you never trap and they will have no fear of being trapped