limit players.... how do you play pocket pairs?

[PShabi]

Just wanted to see if anyone uses the same strategy. If you don't, you may want to give it a a try. I got it from Hellmuth's book.

In LIMIT HE, I will raise and reraise with any pair regardless of position. If the flop is checked to me, which it is most of the time, I'll bet out again. usually win right there.

When you hit a set, you've got a nice pot built and if there are overcards, you'll get action.

You're also able to represent a big hand when you don't improve and get overcards to fold.

You're going to have to deal with swings using theis strategy but if you're bankroll can handle it, it's profittable.

You'll be surprised at how many times you win a pot with 33 or 22. I used to just call the flop and had to fold to a bet everytime.

[GeoffM]

I don't know, I generally like to stay away from raising with a small pair. In a 10 handed game, chances are someone else will have a bigger pair or there are many more overcards in limpers hands.

[BlibbityBlabbity]

I think there is a difference here between the game Phil's book is addressing and a low limit game.

You may be talking about higher limit games too, but I just wanted to point out that in low limit you can build a bigger pot by calling and letting in more players pre-flop (without risking as much). Raising in some low limit games could get pretty crazy as people will 3 bet with AK suited and others will still call with AQ, AJ, A10 (or even Ax suited, KQ, 72os, and 94 suited of course ). And 1 in 8 odds of hitting your set vs almost assurance you will see overcards with your pair of 4s, you don't want to get in a betting war with these hands IMO.

[SirFWALGMan]

I follow SSHE guidelines. Raise 99-AA pre-flop any position. Play 77-AA any position. Play all other pairs limping in at MP or LP. I usually will hit the pot on the flop if it is something scary even if it does not match my trips.

Funny thing happened last night: I played 88, flopped my boat, and the river beat me with 9-10 having a higher boat! Ouch!

[PShabi]

Yeah, Phil said it was for higher limit games, but it's been working for profit in the 2/4 games I'm playing as well. Depends on the table, but sometimes it works better than others. I'm sticking with it.

Like I said, you're going to see bigger swings with the strategy, but on your "hot" days, it's going to make up for it.

It's an ultra-aggressive way to play, but it pays, for me.

You've got to be able to let a hand go, which I'm great at and I save bets.

One other positive with this strategy is this. Let's say you make it 3 bets in late position and you have two callers. You have 66 and the flop is 8-K-A. First man bets out, second calls, you have to fold. But, you've just created a loose table image. Then you get a ton of action when you're actually holding a great pair or you hit your trips.

This also adds positively to your hourly rate.

[Tilter]

With a small, I won't call it in EP, as I don't want to overpay a hand in which I will fold 10/11 times on the flop. Ill only call in Late with low PP with a decent amount of players, and will calls 9s and Ts in EP, and 8s and 7s in MP. If anyone raises, I toss it away, not worth value as it is in NL.

[Charlie Frank]

I think you'll get murdered using that strategy in 2/4.

CF

[drewjax]

"no set, dont bet"

[PShabi]

so if you raise in middle position with 55, had two others in the hand, and the flop was 10-8-4 you wouldn't bet out?

[Defendant]

The only time ill raise small pairs is if its folded to me in LP. I am very willing to call early though in hope of flopping a set.

After the flop its pretty much the old rule: no set no bet.

Defendant

[BlibbityBlabbity]

This is a good question....by raising out of position with a hand almost certain to see overcards on the flop, you have put yourself in a tough spot when you don't hit your set. Would you bet out? and when two call behind you do you bet out on the turn when the 2c hits? IMO, this is the exact situation that leads you into "betting for" top pair hands.

[PShabi]

I guess I'll just have to disagree. I like to reraise in LP. Let's say, you have someone in early position making it 2 bets to go with AK. Everyone folds to you and you're in 9th position. Make it 3 bets. You buy the button, the blinds get out (hopefully) and you're heads up.

Now when the flop is 10-8-4 and he checks I bet out again and either take the hand right there or get him chasing with overcards. If he calls the flop, then checks the turn, I have a decision to make. Do I bet out or check and give him one more draw?

Well, this is where my instincts kick in and the reads I've made on their play in the past is helpful.

Not saying I don't have some tough decisions to make, but I trust myself in those spots.

FINAL IMPORTANT NOTE:

With this strategy, you will win a lot of pots without a showdown. People who called to draw on the flop, will not want to call a bigger bet on the turn. You win a lot of hands right there.

When you've got the set and you show that you reraised with 55, people are calling your raises with j10 and crap like that. And you know what, sometimes I'm holding KK or AA as well. Great for image

[2Tone]

Can't see doing that, especially at a full table. If I have the set, I'll pound away, but this strikes me as overly aggressive otherwise. Let's say my reraise is called, the flop come 10/8/4 rainbow, I bet out and am smooth called. He's called a lot of bets, so I've going to give him credit for QQ or higher, Ace10 at the least. On the turn, is another bet going to win me the pot right there? Possible, but doubtful. So I have to check, he bets, and I'm cost myself a lot more BBs than if I had just let a marginal hand go earlier.

Could well be different at mid-limits ….

[PShabi]

I see your point, but I feel like the money I make when I hit a set and when the situation I last outlined is successful makes up for the times when the circumstances are like you said (huh?).

Also, if you play low-limit he, you know a lot of people will call on the flop with just overcards, trying to again hit a pair. Then, they fold on the turn when the Ace or King(for instance) doesn't hit.

Like I said, instincts here are important.

Anyway,

I'm going to keep a log of what happens when I play my pocket pairs this way and I'll record the outcome and compare it to what would have happened when I just called and hoped to hit a set, or worse yet, FOLDED TO A RAISE WITH PAIR BEFORE THE FLOP.

That way I'll either have some hard evidence to present you, or I'll tighten up my game and approach things differently. That's how I improve.

Peace

[BrianSwa]

I know im gonnna get yelled at for this but i try not to run pocket pairs unless im in real late position as there only worth 1 bet and the odds of hitting your set are very slim. I go by the phrase see flop for as cheap as possible so i never raise the blinds unless im holding AA,KK,AK,QQ,QK(my lucky hand), anything else id rather see the flop before i invest any large sum of money into the pot since most other hands can be beaten pretty easy. This is my personal prefrence and seems to work good for me usually wont run paired 7's and under unless i get to look at flop free 8,9 usually one bet for me 10,j usuall 2 i will call since a 3rd bet would indicate im probolly already behind and need to hit the set to make a hand and anything over that id probolly cap (Q,K,A).

[drewjax]

although it would sound contrary to popular theory, with small pp in low limit games, I tend to raise more in early position, and call/check in late position/blinds. Trying to make as many players fold as possible if early, they of course will hold up better against fewer players, and are more playable after the flop. If I'm in late position/blinds I will basically try to flop set, or dont get too overcommited, because this is usually a family pot.