Can only laugh at this...

Reel Deal · #1 03-10-06, 11:38 PM

PokerStars Game #4244898556: Tournament #20793081, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/03/10 - 22:23:25 (ET)
Table '20793081 64' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: celko68 (3620 in chips)
Seat 2: ReelDeal-Jax (1440 in chips)
Seat 3: gigolo24 (3000 in chips)
Seat 4: scionofzion (1115 in chips)
Seat 5: Emoney77 (1540 in chips)
Seat 6: crankinfrenz (1260 in chips)
Seat 7: lisat0920 (1590 in chips)
Seat 8: KOOMOOSHOO (2025 in chips)
Seat 9: Sailor40 (3570 in chips)
Emoney77: posts small blind 15
crankinfrenz: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ReelDeal-Jax [As Ad]
lisat0920: folds
KOOMOOSHOO: folds
Sailor40: folds
celko68: calls 30
Emoney77 said, "nice river"
ReelDeal-Jax: raises 110 to 140
gigolo24: folds
scionofzion: calls 140
Emoney77: folds
crankinfrenz: folds
celko68: folds
*** FLOP *** [Td Tc 7h]
ReelDeal-Jax: bets 200
scionofzion: calls 200
*** TURN *** [Td Tc 7h] [6h]
KOOMOOSHOO said, "muchas gracias"
ReelDeal-Jax: bets 775
scionofzion: calls 775 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Td Tc 7h 6h] [Qh]
ReelDeal-Jax said, "wow"
scionofzion said, "sorry"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ReelDeal-Jax: shows [As Ad] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
scionofzion: shows [Ts Th] (four of a kind, Tens)
scionofzion collected 2305 from pot
ReelDeal-Jax said, "unreal"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2305 | Rake 0
Board [Td Tc 7h 6h Qh]
Seat 1: celko68 folded before Flop
Seat 2: ReelDeal-Jax showed [As Ad] and lost with two pair, Aces and Tens
Seat 3: gigolo24 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: scionofzion (button) showed [Ts Th] and won (2305) with four of a kind, Tens
Seat 5: Emoney77 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: crankinfrenz (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: lisat0920 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: KOOMOOSHOO folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Sailor40 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PShabi · #2 03-11-06, 12:34 AM

Who plays the turn differently?

holdemstewart · #3 03-11-06, 12:35 AM

yup, not much more you could do.

Reel Deal · #4 03-11-06, 01:13 AM

I don't really want to check the turn (I guess I could but if he fires am I just gonna lay this down?)... if I fire out a bet on the turn it would be at least half the pot, say around 350 and if he comes over the top all-in it's only another 400 or so to call. The smooth call on the flop did set off some warning bells, but given the preflop action I didn't think he had AT or KT or something like that, I thought he had a high PP and if he had TT so be it I'm too big of a donkey to lay this down.

PShabi · #5 03-11-06, 10:38 AM

I pretty much agree with this, the day after. I think the results of the hand may have skewed my viewpoint. If I fire out 350 and he comes over the top, I probably call it too. I wouldn't want to, but I would.

So, I guess I can't hate the turn push.

MAYHEM45 · #6 03-11-06, 11:50 AM

I like the turn push. If he has you beat already, youre too committed to fold, and if he has QQ/JJ you are charging him maximum for his two outer.

JDMcNugent7 · #7 03-11-06, 08:21 PM

Me.

I'd almost def. check the turn for alot of reasons:

1) The flat call on the flop is scary
2) We're basically pot committed - lets let him bet/bluff with worse hands and call him down.
3) If we push and he had somethinig like 78 he's probably going to fold.
4) We're either way behind or way ahead most the time - we dont need to push to give him less chance of hitting any "outs"

Notice in all these situations I'd still make the call - but they are all better than pushing IMO - By checking we give him a chance to put in more $ with a worse hand, rather than push and only get called by better hands.

With deeper stacks this would be an easy fold.

MAYHEM45 · #8 03-11-06, 08:44 PM

What about the times when the other played passively checks down QQ or JJ and we lose that value?

JDMcNugent7 · #9 03-12-06, 12:59 AM

that would be so rare it hardly matters- he would have to have that hand - And passively check it down - both very rare.

Aequitas58 · #10 03-12-06, 03:00 AM

Me.

Reel Deal · #11 03-12-06, 11:31 AM

I recognize post-flop play as the weakest part of my game so I love to hear what you guys have to say on this type of situation. So, Lou, give me your play here...

Talking Poker · #12 03-12-06, 11:40 AM

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking as I was reading through this. I'm not laying down AA here (not with these stacks vs. the size of the pot), so the result would have been the same. But I would have check raised him all in on the turn. At least that would have been my intent. I would have pushed if he made any bet and if he checked behind me, I would have value bet the river (probably about half of his stack), and of course called when he pushed in on me there.

Keep in mind though, I struggle with overpairs sometimes... I think it's one of the weaker parts of my game, in fact. So take my advice with a grain of salt here. I seriously don't see how you could get off this hand though. I really think folding this anywhere along the way would be a mistake.

Aequitas58 · #13 03-12-06, 03:20 PM

Check check check,
check it out...

I agree w/ Junior (JD).

Reel Deal · #14 03-12-06, 11:37 PM

I guess the biggest problem I have w/checking the turn is giving a free card to someone that might be on 89. I think part of the reason I pushed on the turn is that more times than not you're up against someone that's chasing and my first instinct is to make them pay a price that's a mistake if they call.