SD or NonSD?

[melioris]

This is a simple poll. For you cash game players out there, do the majority of your winnings come from showdown hands (SD) or non-showdown (non-SD) hands? Please answer truthfully. It doesn't matter if you are a winning player or a losing player, online or live, if you are playing nosebleed or µ-stakes. Once you vote, please response with the game you play(NLHE, LHE, omaha, etc), stakes (micro, small, medium, large), and live or online.

I think we will learn something very interesting in this poll if enough of us respond seriously.

[melioris]

ok, I will go first.

Right now i am playing small stakes omaha online and the majority of my winnings is coming from SD hands.

[Nikita]

I'm donking it up at $10NL I find most of my winnings are from non-showdown hands. I prefer it that way at these levels, I find if I end up to showdown, they've been chasing and have sucked out.

[Robbr25]

Did a filter in poker tracker for all cash game hands and
Showdown hands won 25k to 17k. (on just wins, Went to Showdown and Won vs Won without Showdown) This was a mix of Limit/NL and various table sizes.

Now at my current level(2000 hands so far) that I am almost exclusively playing, which is 6 max .25/.50 NL.
The numbers are 928 to 856 the same way as my overall numbers with Went to Showdown and Won higher.

At my higher level(Edit - 7000 hands), which was 6 max .50/1.00 NL.
The numbers are 2843 to 1031.

So It seems consistently more of my money is won when having a Showdown. Now does is that really a good thing ? I am not so sure.


(Just used PT Filters to get my results)

[Reel Deal]

I play live and on-line NLHE. I haven't taken the time to do a query on PT but I would say the majority of my winnings on-line probably come from SD hands and the vast majority live definitely comes from SD hands. Stakes I play at range from $100NL to $200NL for both live and on-line.

[2Tone]

In live 3/6 and 4/8 limit games, you don't win many hands without show down.

When in doubt, Check/call the river!

[Talking Poker]

I tried to find the answer to this question with PT over a large sample of hands, but it takes forever.

So: I dunno.

[Wes]

Should be pretty easy to find in PokerEV (is your red line above your green line? then you are non-showdown).

[melioris]

or better yet, just click on the stats tab and look at the values.

[Talking Poker]

It's the loading a year or two's worth of data into PT or PEV or whatever that brings my computer to a halt.

[hackers238]

I play 8-16 tables of NL25, and as of June NL50.

My showdown winnings are much higher, but that might be a byproduct of bad players unconciously floating and thus me value betting very thin.

[melioris]

come folks, I need so more responders to this thread to get a larger sample size. For inspiration, go read this old BBV , and of course this .

[hackers238]

Nice links. I've seen FGators graph before, but it's still incomprehensible.

1.45 million hands SPEWING in non-SD pots...

[Wes]

fyp

[Talking Poker]

Didn't rerun this because of how long it takes to load (and me needing to donwload the latest version), but I remember when I did this for my entire 2007 numbers, my red line was like 10-15k above my green line.

So, non-SD for me, I guess.

Edit: Crap. Now I'm not sure if I'm remembering right.

[hackers238]

That program sucks efficiency wise, it always makes me download the "new version" (a lie, there are no new versions, just a timer which doesn't let you use it 2 days after downloading), and takes ridiculously long to do anything. Not to mention freezes my POS computer, crashes it, and generally messes shit up.

Just to tell me I suck in non-SD pots

[Talking Poker]

I answered based on The Storm's suggestion above (red line above green line), but if I was to guess blindly, I would guess that I win a lot more in non-SD pots than in SD pots.

But to be clear, which of the following are we talking about:

1. NET winnings (or losings) in SD vs. non-SD.
2. GROSS winnings (no losings included) in SD vs. non-SD.

I was assuming #1, but maybe that's not what you are talking about (that's obviously not how Robbr answered).

This thread confuses TP.

[Wes]

green line above red line = non showdown
red line above green line = showdown

[Talking Poker]

No wonder I was confused.

If Post #2 is true and #1 is the lie, then I am SD.

[melioris]

Ok, in pokerev this info is easy to get. Some one else can explain how to get this info in PT. I use pokerev and like it.

lets look at this graph for example (not mine). This player has roughly 32.5K total winnings (green line) with roughly 5K of that coming at SD (blue line). That means that the player is winning roughly 27.5K in pots that do not go to SD. I don't want to get hung up on what this means about the style of play yet, lets first get to the point of just how do we know this info. While that does not reveal anything about how this player plays, we can make some inferences.

[jhill3535]

In PT3, this graph is available in the graphs tab

Just filter for "won hands"

[Wes]

Honestly I would be pretty shocked if anyone on this forum were winning from non-showdown hands. I certainly don't. Partly has something to do with that I call down lighter than most, but I'm not really aggressive enough on later streets to value bet lightly enough to bluff in some spots.

There was a time where I was trying to improve these silly lines in pokerev, but I just gave up looking at pokerev because it mostly just turned into another excuse for playing badly.

[melioris]

this is where I was hoping this thread would go.

I spent about 4 months at the beginning of the year trying to "develop a more consistent winning style" by not having to depend on the majority of my winnings come from showdown.

But then I realized for me a laggy, very aggressive big pot style in which I was bluffing a lot and value betting thin (increasing winning non SD pots while losing more SD pots) was not a good fit for me personally. I sucked at it and I lost a shitload of money trying to play a style that wasn't fun for more and felt unnatural. So then I went back to my nitty, 'get the money in when I am good' style, and got back to my normal ways. And since I table select pretty well and there are still lots of bad players willing to it in with the worst of it, I could be a winning player. And then I found PLO and fell in love with that game.

I still like pokerev a lot, particularly as most of my profit comes from SD pots I like to follow how hot and cold I am running in SD pots. And it makes pretty graphs for omaha.