Full Tilt bots at 1/2nl.

[MAYHEM45]

OMG

[Talking Poker]

I'm reading this now. This is VERY interesting.

[jillaj]

I need to check my stats to see how many hands I have against these bots.

[Reel Deal]

I've played against 1forthethumb several times.

Edit: and mariojr

They play at full ring $200 NL

[MAYHEM45]

I dont have any hands on them, but I only ever played 6max. They are FR bots.

[Talking Poker]

The first post in that thread is indeed amazing, and eye opening, etc. But then it turns into typical 2+2 syndrome with pages and pages and pages of useless crap that I personally find impossible to wade through. My favorite are all the toold the quote other people's responses without adding a word. Yeah, we know you agree, but my God, isn't it hard enough to wade through all this shit?

For you at TP who don't feel like digging through all of that (I've pretty much given up by Page 3), here is one poster's summary of the OP:

If someone here actually digs through everything and stays on top of this, please keep us updated. At the very least, I'd like to see Full Tilt's official response.

I'm planning on emailing them and asking for a direct response to the accusations made in that thread, and I think it would be a good idea for everyone else to do the same.

[MAYHEM45]

I've already emailed them as well, i'll let you know when the respond in a week or two.

Ive skimmed the whole thread and it seems that FTPSean (their security liason for 2p2) is online and posting in other threads, but hasnt read this one yet. I'll let you know what their statement is when they post.

[Talking Poker]

As for my thoughts on this, my initial reaction is always to shrug off NL bots. Ohhh, 14/7 TAGs, how ever will I beat them?

But then I realized something (when I read it in that dude's post): Their mere existence is still -EV for me. While *I* may be able to beat them, if they are running on auto-pilot for countless hours and are busting fish, that's money they are winning that *I* could/should be winning. Honestly, I feel really stupid for haveing never put that together before.

The one thing I find most interesting though is this: If this bot programmer hadn't be so stupid and greedy, he could have gotten away with this indefinitely. By playing 1 account on 8-12 tables for a couple of 4 hour sessions per day, he would have never been caught. But by playing on at least THREE accounts and always at the same times and never at the same tables (DUH), he's exposed himself as a multiple account holder if nothing else, and based on all the evidence, it seems pretty clear he's using identical bots too. I mean, dude, if you are going to go through the trouble of playing with multiple bots, at least give them different "personalities" (ie, make one 14/7, another 16/12, and another 18/14 or something) and DON'T play them all at exactly the same times day after day after day.

Duuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh.........

[Talking Poker]

I'm, tempted to tell them I won't be playing any more ring games on their site until I hear back from them, but I think I'll give them a day or two first...

[Talking Poker]

I hate myself for it (I really do), but I've been digging through more of the responses, so you punks don't have to. Here is one I find extremely interesting:

[MAYHEM45]

Its really a good read if you've honed your 2p2 reading skills. You just gotta know what posts you can skip.

[Reel Deal]

Check this out:

Notice how the timer starts on him on both the flop and the river.

[melioris]

great find mayhem.

Any thoughts on if/when Stars will open up its site to datamining to demonstrate it has nothing to hide. Clearly now with bots at both limit and NL, consumer pressure should force sites demonstrate that they are free of bots.

[Talking Poker]

More retarded programming, if that's what it is. Code a 5 second delay as the standard response, but vary it. On the river, maybe reach the river 20% of the time before acting. CERTAINLY this sort of thing could be programmed.

I actually think the constant slow response time makes it look less bot-likely, and more multi-table likely.

[Talking Poker]

Apparently, a couple of these dudes on playing on Tilt right now, getting torn up by the railbirds. Obviously they are playing as themselves right now, responding to chat, etc. The one dude even admitted that he is "friends" with one of the other names, when asked about it.

I read through that whole thread and I hate myself for it (my 2+2 reading skills are TERRIBLE), but I do think it's pretty interesting.

[melioris]

I find the "dick on the back" threads, while internet classics, are best to avoid. Threads like this are worth the pain.

[jillaj]

I only have stats for 1/2 6 max. It looks like this guys days of using bots on these accounts are over. I wonder how many thers he uses at different limits. Programming a break even bot with rakeback is profitable enough on its own. I wonder how many there are out there.

[Talking Poker]

Well, you say his days of using bots are over, but after a nearly 3 month investigation of his accounts, FT cleared him to play.... and has yet to respond to the 2+2 thread or my email.

[sjay2k]

i always thought NMDynasty was a bot

turns out he's just a horrible nit

[Talking Poker]

LOL.... I can't believe out of all possible names, you just brought up his. Because he was always my #1 suspected potential bot as well. He runs 15/8 and is way passive. And the guy goes on massive swings too, and I'm not sure why (tilt? variance?).

I have 17k hands on him now and he's up like $5k, but I had him up $10k through 14k hands and DOWN $2k through 9k hands. That's when I first noticed him, when I thought he was horrible and he was claiming to be a big winner (yes, he chatted), so I've kinda kept an eye on his numbers since.

Robbr just PMd me about him last night, actually. Too funny.

[stormswa]

this was just posted.....

[de-coder]

I have about 3k hands on 2 of these guys (at $1 and $2) and they're down about $1k... I'll extract all the stats for them if anyone wants.

[sjay2k]

I hate NMDynasty so much. he's always chastising fish and plays such a lame boring style.

One hand I played against him was pretty cool. 5/10NL, MUCKEMSAYUHHH (v good lag) opens UTG to $35, I call on the button with QJss and NMDynasty calls from the SB. Effective stacks are about $1300.

Flop is Q-J-5 rainbow. NM checks, MUCKEM leads for $95, I raise to $269, NM check-raises to about $500, MUCKEM folds, chat goes something like this:

me: loool nm u r the worst
me: you have 55
me: nothing else
me: im folding QJ
me: if u show anything other than 55 i will pay u $55

I let my time run down (so he can uncheck auto-muck), I fold and he auto-mucks. He then starts abusing me in chat, saying what a horrible fold it was and challenging me to play more tables (we were already playing about 4 tables together).

The funny thing is, the next time we were in a hand, he bet the flop, I raised with my overpair, he shoved, I called and he had a flush draw.

I hate NM though because he must play a million hands per year and has made more money from poker than i ever will. Not sure he's even a winner in today's games, but his nit style would've been hugely successful in the old loose-passive games.

[sjay2k]

i would have grimmed him if he had actually shown anything else (but i mean cmon he had fives)

[Van_Broked]

Just a little update from 2+2.
A user came on and defended the bots by the name of BrandonJoseph47. Of course he just signed up there today. I guess someone realized the Steelers just signed a guy close to that name or something and the Penguins had 47 wins last year. THen someone traced his IP to Pittsburgh. Anyway, the guy got caught in a lie (read it if you want) and dissapeared.

Then somebody stumbled upon this at pocketfives.

Note the full tilt username. City - Johnstown, PA

Here is his profile at a different place.


Here is the original posters data on the players.