Interesting freeroll at Party last night

[Penguinfan]

At least interesting to me. Anyone who takes the time to read this and reply will hopefully see where I am coming from, but it should make for some decent conversation.

Party has a couple freerolls each day for thier real money players and they put $5000 in the prize fund, not bad for a freeroll. Top 50 get paid starting at 50 bucks and going up to a nice grand for first. They limit it to 2500 people (if you call that a limit) and I decided to play last night with the thought in mind I was gonna get some chips early or bust out just as quick as I wasn't gonna sit and play tight for four hours just to bust out 90th and waste all that time.

I got my wish on the first hand, only three players including me bothered to make it for the first hand and I was the BB with AcKc, honestly 50 people busted out before we saw a flop waiting for everyone to time out, it folded to the small blind who raised to 100 and I held true to my game plan and pushed all-in and immediatly got called. We can debate the merit of this play another time, like I said, get some chips or bust out. He turns up QQ and I knew he was screwed because pocket Q's are death on Party, sure enough first card off the deck was an Ace and I doubled up.

I played ALOT of hands the first hour, maybe as many as half of them, seeing any cheap flop I could and trying to win pots after that, I ended the first hour with just over 3000 chips, not bad, but not great. I really got no cards the second and third hour, none, but managed to get to 4K in chips. The fourth hour is where the game starts to take shape, remember only 50 get paid at all and people who had 1500 chips were already stalling when there was 250 people left, it was rediculous, ALTHOUGH I did learn that this is the time to start stealing everything you can, and I mean everything!

I worked my stack to just over 26K with around 200 players left. I could give details of hands but suffice to say I got my chips in with good cards and they held up for the most part until IT happened. If hand histories showed how many people were left in a tournament I would post it so you know I am not lying here, after almost 5 hours, and by the way the game started at 6:20 est and I am usually in bed by 9 since I get up at 3:30 for work on Saturdays, it's 11:30 and I have decided that after missing almost 3 hours of sleep I had to get something for my effort (here's the IT that happened) with 51 people left on 6 tables I am in the BB and guy in MP raises to 25000, about half my stack and he has me covered, keep in mind we are on the bubble at this point, 51 gets nothing, I look at AA and have a decision to make. I am thinking about the 5 hours I just wasted if I bust out with this while he types in that I better be careful because he will call if I push. I type back that if I push I want him to call, no response. There is a guy on another table with 200 chips and will have to post blinds in two hands (hand for hand at this point) if I fold I am guaranteed to make 50 bucks, if I push and double up I could go deep in this thing and you have to get to the final table to really make any decent money, 25-50 get $50, 11-25 get $60. I thought about it and just called, the flop comes 2-7-9 all diamonds, I have the A of diamonds and tell him I will call anything he bets then I check, he checks as he is starting to think he may be beat, blank, blank on the turn and river, the cards turn over and he has KK and I win a nice pot. Had I pushed pre-flop I would have doubled up or if a another diamond falls I double up since he had the Kd. Tough spot honestly, keep in mind I wanted to get SOMETHING out of those five hours, getting dealt AA on the bubble when a guy raises half your stack in front of you is no fun, let me tell you!

Alot of you will say I should have pushed without hesitation, but keep in mind if I lose the hand I get squat, fold two more hands and I get $50. Anyway I played pretty well the rest of the way and made the final table where I was chip leader with 7 players left, though the chip lead changed drastically from hand to hand with blinds of 20K/40K. I busted out the 10th, 9th, 8th place finishers to get the chip lead and had over 400,000 chips. There were alot of hands that two or more people were all in and the short stacks just kept winning, we got to 6 handed and I went from penthouse to outhouse in three hands. I called a big bet with AK and got nothing on the flop and was facing an all-in and folded after the flop, very next hand I was small blind and it folded to me, I just called the BB and he pushed in, like he was doing alot, I had him covered by a bit but would lose over 100K if I lost the pot but I called with Qs9s (marginal call at best, I know) he has Js8s so I am in good shape until he flops an 8 and I get no help and lose a big pot, very next hand I get 66 and push my chips in when it folds around to me on the button, SB folds, BB calls, he has me covered and in bad shape with KK. I bust out 6th and got $125 for my trouble and it's now almost 1:00 in the morning.

Those games are long and made longer by the incredible stalling that goes on. I could have played much better at the final table, but just tried to win every pot. Big difference between 6th and first ($1,000).

Interesting game in my opinion and though this was a long post I left out some big hands. The things that stick with me are how people say you have to get lucky to win a MTT, I am not sure I believe that to be true, I think you just have to play very well and not get UNLUCKY.

I see why they say you just try to survive the first hour, the risk in winning a pot is just not worth the reward.

You don't need to win too many pots the 3rd and 4th hour since the pots are so big at that point compared to what the average stack is, if you have any chips at all you can wait for a good hand and when you get it play it very agressive.

When you get within 50 or 100 of the money steal like your wearing a ski mask.

I like the build a stack early or bust out just as quick theory for a freeroll.

If you made it this far and have any thoughts I'd love to hear them.

[BlibbityBlabbity]

AA hand....If you were going to play it so slow if you didn't improve though I think you should have just folded it pre-flop.

I think you are in a push/fold with AA here, though. Calling the bet is just letting him see the flop for free and getting yourself into a bad situation when he pushes on the flop (which didn't happen since you TOLD him you had the Ad).

If you don't want to get invloved in ANY hand on the bubble and you have chips to last it out, just post and fold and walk away from the computer and check back every few minutes to see if you are in the money yet. But if you are sitting there it is almost impossible NOT to play if you get AA, KK, etc.

BTW, I know it was late when you typed that, but DAMN that was hard to read...

[junYUN]

LOL i can't believe i read that MASSIVE post with no paragraphs.

AA hand... i don't know how i would have played it at the time, but from my perspective i would think that with AA or KK in any spot in a tournament look good to me...

i dont like the Q9 hand...but it did turn out you had the best of it to start.

all-in-all congrats on your finish... i played a few of these the other days and busted out 68th, 75th, and 125th respectively. i was not very happy...as i figure i wasted about 10 hours playing these things and didnt make a cent

[PShabi]

Puppies died on that AA hand. I think part of me did also.

Seriously, maybe I don't understand being an internet poker player with no money or something. $50 makes you lose perspective that quick huh? You had AA in the later stages of a MTT with someone inviting you to take his chips. I could have that situation presented to me a million times and I can't think of one situation where I'd play it like a fucking Nancy.

I'd feel a lot better about busting out on the bubble with AA than I would thinking about what would have happened if I had those chips.

Sad.

[Penguinfan]

Yea, I usually posess a little better writing skills than that, sorry.

Pshabi, I'll type this slow so you can understand, It wasn't about the $50, it was about spending 5 hours for nothing.

Forget everything else, if I approached you and said you had to play one hand and I give you AA but if you lose the game is over and I get to kick you in the nuts (supposing you have any) OR you can just stand around on the street corner and do nothing for two minutes and I will give you $50 which would you choose?

Winning the hand didn't guarantee I move up 25 more spots, and that was only 10 dollars more. You seem to think 50 bucks is pennies, well what is it compared to 10 dollars then?

If you have to come in my posts and be a fucking jerk just because Michael Jackson didn't pick you then just don't open them fuckwad.

[Talking Poker]

Easy, fellas.

I like ridiculous analogies (I make them all the time), and I like this one. The problem is though, it doesn't hold true to last night's situation. You're forgetting one key piece, which would be something like:

"If you decide to play the AA and WIN, you are guaranteed the $50 but also have a significantly (that's subjective, of course) higher chance of winning more money, as much as $1000."

So, here are the possible outcomes:

1. Stand Around the Corner and get $50. Still have a shot at more money, but it's much less likely than if you play the AA.
2. Play AA and lose, get kicked in the nuts.
3. Play AA and win, get $50 and a chance at up to $1000.

Each outcome is mutually exclusive, but when deciding between #2 and #3, you need to keep in mind that as soon as you decide to play the AA, #3 is much more likely than #2 - in this case, it was about 4.5:1, but it could have been even higher if he had AK...

[BlibbityBlabbity]

I personally think anyone who approaches me on a dark street corner and SUGGESTS kicking me in the nuts is just asking for a good tazer-ing....

[Penguinfan]

I never said I played it right, just that in the situation it was not as easy decision. Had there still been 10 to go till the money I beat him in the pot. Since $50 is chump change to you high rollers what if the situation was in you satellite tomorrow and for 51st place you get a kick in the nuts but if you fold two more hands you go to the WSOP main event? I guarantee you don't play those Aces and if you do and bust out with them you will never forget the time you should have folded AA, never.

Granted $50 isn't the same as playing in the main event, but honestly it was important to me not to waste all that time for nothing, thats VERY frustrating.

All in all I like Blibitty's response best so far, there was not reason to call in that spot, all-in or fold should have been the options, not sure what I would have done when/if he bet at those diamonds if I had two black aces instead of the Ad. I am sure I would have called if he pushed me after the flop though and hoped for another diamond or hoped he was bluffing. In any event fold or push is what should have happened, call was terrible the more I think about it.

[BlibbityBlabbity]

It is interesting to see how much money is enough money to impact a decision like this. For me $50 is a lot of money when no money is invested. If this were a $1 tourney and the "money" meant $1.42 or soemthing that makes the decision pretty easy to get your chips in with the AA. For a sattelite to the WSOP for top 50 spots it is an easy fold (as all the top 50 pay the same and you have chips to wait out the short satacks).

If say it was $10000 for the money, as it is in the main event, there are some who would be too happy to get their chips in and there are others who just want that $10K and then they will take whatever chips they have after that and make thier shot.

Another analogy (not necessarily a good one):

Lottery ticket A - 99% chance of $50 + 40% chance at $1000
Lottery ticket B - 30% chance of getting nothing, 70% chance of $50 + 60% chance at $1000

Depends what you are playing for, $50+ or $1000. Personal choice.

[Talking Poker]

Again, your analogy is a bit off. If 50th place paid $10,000 in this example, then the winner would have to take home $200,000 (in your tourney, the winner was paid 20 times as much as 50th place). If that was the case, yeah, I'd push all my chips in for sure.

If all 50 places paid the same (10k in this example, or $50 in your tourney from last night), then this is an easy fold, as would be pretty much every hand after this one.

[ChipFish]

If you were playing for only the $50 then folding was fine.
If you were playing for the final table, then you should have pushed.

Obvious stuff.
I agree, that if you don't have a large roll, then $50 is still alot of money.
Don't listen to the other guys.
If the money was what you wanted, and you really could not have been happy, if you bubbled out, then folding was fine.

[BrianSwa]

here is my opinion even though you all say im losing player so my opinion sucks.

there is only 2 plays here pre-flop, fold if you just want the $50 and dont want to take the chance of bubbleing out or push all in if you want to take the chance and get a big time chip advantage. I dont think the calling small raise was the right play you are pretty much commiting yourself to this pot, sure you could fold this on the flop but then your shortstacked big time and that sucks.

Ok yea you probolly could of still folded on the flop and made the money but why have to put yourself in that position. You had 2 plays but didnt pick one of them and made up your own, in my opinion wasnt play I would of made but to each his own.

[PShabi]

In other words, you played it like a pussy.

[Penguinfan]

From now on it will be referred to as playing it like a Pshabi then.

Please stay out of my threads, the entire forum will be a better place for it.

[ChipFish]

Yes, Pshabi.
Logic has no place in this thread.

[Penguinfan]

Looking for a permenant place on the "fuck you" list Chip?

Damn, whole forum full of dickheads....................

[ChipFish]

Mrs. Penguin would have played the AA.

[junYUN]

lol whoa now slow down penguin

although i don't agree with the call either... i can see why you made it. $50 was important to your roll, and thats the way it is. sometimes people make strange decisions when there is money involved.

either way you ended up at the final table right? you were at one point the chip leader? looking back, the AA hand didn't even really effect the outcome of the tournament. i mean, maybe slightly as in a couple of spots you might have doubled those chips, but i mean hey -- you made it to the final table. congrats. now let's drop this BS and move onto the next thread

[ChipFish]

To hell with that.

Mrs. Penguin would have played the Aces
Discuss.

[junYUN]

you're a dumbass

[ChipFish]

Name calling is a sign of intelligence right?

[Talking Poker]

For the record, I don't think there is a right and a wrong play here. You can make a case for either folding or pushing.... or even calling. This situation is more about personal preference than right or wrong.

I would have pushed, but I wouldn't fault someone for a second for folding here if they explained why they were folding, which Penguin has done.

In the Main Event of the WSOP, if we're down to the bubble and there is a $20k or so difference between being knocked out next ($0) and folding for a few hands and waiting for someone else to be knocked out.... you can bet your ass it's going to be hard for me to play any hand against a bigger stack, even AA. I'd like to think I would push my chips in, but when it comes down to it, I don't know that I would. I'm pretty sure I would, but like I said, I don't know...

[ChipFish]

And for the record... You would still be wrong..... (From a poker standpoint).
But, you could bet your ASS that I would fold 10 straight hands of Pocket Aces, if it guaranteed me $20k.
Incorrect poker, yes.
Money that makes a difference, also yes.

As for Penguins little tantrum?
I agreed with him. If the $50 makes a difference, then fold.
And I told him so.
This was not "the correct" play, as it comes to "winning" the tournament, and or placing high, as I also said.
But in his case he wanted $50 so it was correct.

Then Penguin took some good-natured ribbing the wrong way and JUNYUN stuck his nose into something stupid.

I'm beginning to see why Brian does it...
It's alot of fun stirring the pot.

[GeoffM]

I would push with AA all day long, no matter the situation, knowing I did the right thing.

[ChipFish]

You are telling me that in your current financial situation, if you somehow made it to the bubble of this year's WSOP, and had the choice of Folding AA and being guaranteed $20K (or more), or getting all-in vs a bigger stack and most likely doubling up but with the chance to go broke and win $0 you would play that?

Not me man, I'd take the guaranteed cash.