When should you be aggressive on the river instead of a value bet?

[Robbr25]

Besides for having the NUTS or close to it.
When should you put an aggressive bet on the river OOP.

[Zybomb]

This isn't that clear. Do you mean on a bluff? Do you mean with how strong of a hand? It's hard to answer bc the situation is what determines things usually

[Robbr25]

I mean pretty open.
When to bluff, when not to.
Make up some examples.
I have a lot of trouble being aggressive on the river and I am looking to improve.
So a couple of examples of plays to make on the river will help.

[Zybomb]

Obviously bet your strong/nut hands (when deciding whether to value bet or bet hard, there is an excellent chapter in the Sklansky NLHE Book on how to determine this)

Its so hard to answer the rest bc literally the entire hands details determine this. but some general ideas

- If you've bet the flop and turn and been called, and the draw completes on the river don't bet. Check/Call or Check/Fold

- If you've called two opponent bets and a draw completes on the river, even if it's one you dont have, is a good time to bluff

- If you've clled two opponent bets and every draw misses the river, it is a bad time to bluff

- If you put your opponent on a decent hand that is weaker than yours, bc they would have raised on the flop or turn with a stronger hand bc of drawing possibilities (all which misseD) bet

- If a draw completes, but the draw does not beat you, bet and overbet

- If you ever have bottom quads on a two pair board, overbet and be called by the top full house

Its really hard to say -- the next online session I have I'll try and save some hands where interesting situations came up on the river and we can discuss

[JDMcNugent7]

wow all that from a question that didnt even make sense
do u get paid to coach this whole site?

[Boobie Lover]

Black and white rules usually do not work well at poker, especially big bet poker.

[Zybomb]

More than you make in year chump

[Van_Broked]

Another one you can do with a non-nut hand is when you hold a big pair. This is a better play in position and on a dry board. Say you have Aces and raise and get it heads up. Flop comes down J73 rainbow and you fire a CB and are called. A lot of the time opponents will call you here with an underpair or a weak J like JT. If the turn bricks and he checks it to you, check behind him. Then, when he checks to you on the river, overbet the pot (unless an A,K or Q hits). You will be surprised how often your "obvious bluff with AK or AQ" gets called by all sorts of weak holdings.

[Zybomb]

I just finished a SNG. Not too many interesting river situations came up, but here's what I got.

PokerStars Game #8142225456: Tournament #41547651, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/01/27 - 02:49:57 (ET)
Table '41549476 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: belemy77 (1130 in chips)
Seat 2: UTHemingway (1450 in chips)
Seat 3: chris8765 (1030 in chips)
Seat 4: capt oreo (1670 in chips)
Seat 5: mooseloose2 (1900 in chips)
Seat 6: supercool915 (1580 in chips)
Seat 7: TheNextThing (1680 in chips)
Seat 8: stealyorchip (1520 in chips)
Seat 9: "SHRAKE" (1540 in chips)
chris8765: posts small blind 10
capt oreo: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheNextThing [Ah Th]
mooseloose2: folds
supercool915: folds
TheNextThing: raises 50 to 70
stealyorchip: folds
"SHRAKE": folds
belemy77: folds
UTHemingway: folds
chris8765: folds
capt oreo: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [Jd 9s As]
capt oreo: checks
TheNextThing: checks
*** TURN *** [Jd 9s As] [5h]
capt oreo: checks
TheNextThing: bets 100
capt oreo: calls 100
*** RIVER *** [Jd 9s As 5h] [9d]
capt oreo: checks
TheNextThing: bets 225
capt oreo: calls 225
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TheNextThing: shows [Ah Th] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
capt oreo: mucks hand

I like a bet here, based on my flop check behind I don't think he puts me on an ace and I think he has a jack and will call if I bet. I don't think he checks all three streets (including the turn after I checked the flop) with a better hand than mine either. It turned out villian had pocket Kings , which I obviously couldn't have suspected, but I like a value bet here.

PokerStars Game #8142225456: Tournament #41547651, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit- Level II (15/30) - 2007/01/27 - 02:56:34 (ET)
Table '41549476 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: belemy77 (1210 in chips)
Seat 2: UTHemingway (1450 in chips)
Seat 3: chris8765 (1020 in chips)
Seat 4: capt oreo (1135 in chips)
Seat 5: mooseloose2 (1830 in chips)
Seat 6: supercool915 (1640 in chips)
Seat 7: TheNextThing (2170 in chips)
Seat 8: stealyorchip (1460 in chips)
Seat 9: "SHRAKE" (1585 in chips)
"SHRAKE": posts small blind 15
belemy77: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheNextThing [6h 7h]
UTHemingway: calls 30
chris8765: folds
capt oreo: folds
mooseloose2: folds
supercool915: folds
TheNextThing: calls 30
stealyorchip: folds
"SHRAKE": folds
belemy77: checks
*** FLOP *** [6d 6c 8s]
belemy77: checks
UTHemingway: checks
TheNextThing: checks
*** TURN *** [6d 6c 8s] [Kc]
belemy77: checks
UTHemingway: bets 60
TheNextThing: calls 60
belemy77: folds
*** RIVER *** [6d 6c 8s Kc] [Ac]
UTHemingway: bets 90
TheNextThing: calls 90
*** SHOW DOWN ***
UTHemingway: shows [Qd Kd] (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
TheNextThing: shows [6h 7h] (three of a kind, Sixes)

I called the turn to hopefully squeeze in belemy which doesn't happen. A smallish raise in this spot isn't bad, because it could be done with a King to define my hand and may be called as well but whatever. On the river I really don't like the card at all. He could have bet a flush draw on the turn and now completed on the river, but more importantly, I put him on a King (although the case 6 isnt crazy either), and I think the Ace scared him, so he's not calling a raise anyway in all liklihood unless I'm beat, so I decide to just call on this river here and expect to scoop the pot. Yes I would have bet if he checked to me, and yes I would have raised if a safer river card came (both flush wise and the fact that it was a scare card for him too so he likely wasnt calling with his hand unless it was good)

PokerStars Game #8142225456: Tournament #41547651, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2007/01/27 - 03:15:51 (ET)
Table '41549476 1' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: belemy77 (2075 in chips)
Seat 2: UTHemingway (1320 in chips)
Seat 3: chris8765 (1075 in chips)
Seat 4: capt oreo (740 in chips)
Seat 5: mooseloose2 (2475 in chips)
Seat 6: supercool915 (1140 in chips)
Seat 7: TheNextThing (3310 in chips)
Seat 9: "SHRAKE" (1365 in chips)
supercool915: posts small blind 50
TheNextThing: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheNextThing [Jd Ad]
"SHRAKE": folds
belemy77: folds
UTHemingway: folds
chris8765: folds
capt oreo: folds
mooseloose2: raises 100 to 200
supercool915: folds
TheNextThing: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [Tc 5h 9c]
TheNextThing: checks
mooseloose2: checks
*** TURN *** [Tc 5h 9c] [5s]
TheNextThing: checks
mooseloose2: checks
*** RIVER *** [Tc 5h 9c 5s] [Ah]
TheNextThing: bets 400
mooseloose2: calls 400
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TheNextThing: shows [Jd Ad] (two pair, Aces and Fives)
mooseloose2: shows [As Qd] (two pair, Aces and Fives - Queen kicker)
mooseloose2 collected 1250 from pot

This river bet was absolutely awful on my part, even worse bc I almost potted it-- If I did bet, I should have thrown a blocker bet. Unless villian raised with A2-A8 this bet isnt getting called unless Im beat. Any 10 or 9 should have bet the flop or turn, any PP bets the turn at least, thus all that remains is KQ/KJ type hands (which will fold to my bet) or AX, X which likely beats me. Check and call.

PokerStars Game #8142225456: Tournament #41547651, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2007/01/27 - 03:41:39 (ET)
Table '41549476 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: belemy77 (2880 in chips)
Seat 2: UTHemingway (3995 in chips)
Seat 5: mooseloose2 (3200 in chips)
Seat 7: TheNextThing (3425 in chips)
belemy77: posts the ante 25
UTHemingway: posts the ante 25
mooseloose2: posts the ante 25
TheNextThing: posts the ante 25
mooseloose2: posts small blind 100
TheNextThing: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheNextThing [Ah 7c]
belemy77: folds
UTHemingway: calls 200
mooseloose2: folds
TheNextThing: checks
*** FLOP *** [6s 4d 8s]
TheNextThing: checks
UTHemingway: checks
*** TURN *** [6s 4d 8s] [6d]
TheNextThing: checks
UTHemingway: checks
*** RIVER *** [6s 4d 8s 6d] [8c]
TheNextThing: checks
UTHemingway: bets 200
TheNextThing: calls 200
*** SHOW DOWN ***
UTHemingway: shows [As Qc] (two pair, Eights and Sixes)

I normally bet this flop or raise preflop (although in this case its good i didnt), but ignoring the hand and discussing just the river, This is a poor river bet on his part. It can't be called unless he's beat or it's a chop and it isnt going to fold anything better out. Just check behind


Nothing too exciting, but theres a few examples of different situations. I realize I didnt post any bluff examples for the river -- sorry none really came up this tourny

[Zybomb]

Very true. A lot of the time people bluff into you on the river given this action, but in addition alot of opponents call with a wide range of hands if they check and the PFR bet the flop, checked behind on the turn and then bet the river

[Robbr25]

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of examples I was looking for.
My total aggression factor on the river is only 1.21 and am looking to improve it.
I will definitely consider the situations that you have given.