Using position to represent strength?

[Defendant]

So while playing, I was wondering about this situation:

The first few seats are generally thought of as bad position (understandably so). But that makes a raise during any time in the hand a lot stronger. Take this hand for example: AQo in the SB, one standard raise, you call, one other person calls. Flop is uncoordinated rags. Now take the following two situations:

a) SB plays "by the book" and checks this flop. The second caller checks right behind the SB, having missed his hand too. Now, the original raiser bets out. You know NOTHING about where you are in this hand, and have to let it go, even though its highly likely hes just picking off the pot here after you showed weakness.

b) SB bets out half the pot. You missed, but with that flop, anything but a high pp will have a hard time calling you here. Why? You bet out with 2 people to act behind you. Of course, a strong ace has no business calling here, but even hands as strong as 10s will have a difficult decision seeing how much strength you represented betting out from your position.
And if someone comes over the top of you here, you know for sure youre beat, so its an easy laydown, not very expensive.

Some feedback would be appreciated, not sure if this play is good or not (of course, assuming NL and somewhat skilled opponents who realize the factor that position is).

Defendant

[eddo31]

i think that in order for this play to work you have to raise preflop, and then fire at it again on the flop. i dont think that just betting or check raising the flop is necessarily enough to take this down. showing postflop agression here may be wasted because you did not lead into it by three betting it preflop.

theoretically, this play can work with any two cards, and you dont necessarily have to have a hand even as good as AQ. if you can effectively represent a big hand when you are holding absolute trash, then you should try this more often. yes, you will get called sometimes, and have to sheepishly showdown 93o often, but advertising isnt the worst thing in the world. if you can throw this into your game, then it is like adding a good changeup to a fastball pitcher. it throws everyone else off, and they never know what you have.

[Defendant]

Just for clarification, Im talking NL here, so I can put a lot more pressure out there on the flop. Also, I think the flat call of a 3-4 blind raise does represent some strength, and reraising here would not be in order IMO.

Defendant

[eddo31]

i agree that the flat call does represent strength as well, but from the blind it isnt as significant. if you were in early position (not in a blind), and you did that, then i think it shows more strength. from the blind i am conflicted as to whether it shows an attempt to not get run over in your blind, or it could show strength.

i just dont think that it is nearly as effective from the blind as it is from third position. i understand that it is different in no limit, but it is also riskier and that has to be taken into account.

[n9ne]

this forum is like one big anomally



for some reason i dont have much motivation to help my opponents become better players

[Talking Poker]

So........ why are you here?

The purpose of threads like this isn't just to help your opponents (which is a ridiculous notion in itself).... it's to generate discussion which will help all of us - including you. By participating, you should be able to learn something and maybe even improve your own game.

[Talking Poker]

When the situation is right (depending on my opponents and a number of other things), I like showing strength from the blinds after a rag flop.

The play you described is ok, but one I like much better here, is a check raise... That also gives you the opportunity to change your mind and get off it without spending any more money, but if all goes according to plan (check to the guy in late position and he bets out what looks like a steal with overcards), it's a great opportunity to throw out a nice raise and take the pot down.

Don't try this against a weak opponent, of course. He needs to understand what you are telling him, which is that you have him in bad shape and his big cards probably aren't even outs.

[stussy2k]

I think if i were to miss a flop with AQ in SB, and i bet preflop, its a guarenteed bet on the flop. If i get a reraise, then i'll muck it, but if you think most people that are involved in your hand missed, its a good time to pick up the pot.

[n9ne]

well obviously i was here to get 200 posts TP



i still dont understand why anyone would want to help other people become better players


you can ban me now if you want

[Gutzz]

When you explain something to someone, often it forces you to consider things you hadn't originally thought about; but by typing the post, you did. So, you became a better player without having to read a single post!

Also, do you really believe they'll become a better player than you, because they read your posts? c'mon. If anything you'll be giving them scraps, and in the event you give them gold, it's very possible that they're misapplying what you said, and have become a worse player! Funnily enough, this exact thing happened to a friend of mine when he was reading a post of mine on another forum about odds. He completely mixed up what I said (I didn't know he had done this), and became a losing limit player! Weeks and weeks have past and only yesterday did he figure what he was doing was wrong.

There're litterally dozens of reasons I can think of to help weaker players, and all of them will make YOU more money.

If you cannot see this, and are going to keep your cards close to you, even off the tables, then you will stagnate and stop progressing sooner than you should (hit a wall).

I guaran-damn-tee it.

Cheers,

Gutzz

[Talking Poker]

No need to ban you. We're just different. I don't see the people posting here as my enemies... rather, I see them as allies.

But whatever. Thanks for stopping by.

[Talking Poker]

And so far, all I've seen from this guy is bad advice. Maybe that was intentional, since he's trying to make us all worse players. LOL...

People are funny.