Arsenal Upgrade: Stealing against Limpers. NLHE MTT

[Aequitas58]

This may or may not be an "article," but I was able to illustrate something tonight that I'd like to share. Depending on your proficiency with NLHE MTTs, this may or may not be useful for you.

We all know it's important to not only survive in MTTs, but we need to chip up. It's tough (and disheartening!) to go far in a tournament and simply run out of gas because of missed opportunities. Cashing just "in the money" is almost useless compared to the top-heavy payout structure.

How do we chip up?
Well, we win pots, or we sure as hell steal them. The standard raising situation occurs when you are LP, and you attempt to steal the blinds. I'd rather not going into stealing hands, stack size considerations, and player reads, because I want to talk about a different stealing situation: against Mp-LP limpers.

Here's the scenario: It's beginning to get late into the tournament. The bubble may or may not be approaching, but the blinds and antes are enough to be worth fighting over. You have an average stack, but you realize that staying average is going to suck with the next blind level 6 minutes away.

You're in late position. Watch what people do. Generally, at this stage, opponents are raising good Aces, maybe broadway suited Kings, and pairs 66+. If you have a good read on your opponent, you'll have a better understanding of his possible range, but I don't think this is too far off. Regardless, at this level (w/ antes) players are usually limping with much weaker hands: KTs, silly suited Aces probably down to A5s, baby & sometimes middle pairs, QJo, etc.

It's important to realize that limping is weak when you've had the chance to open the pot for a raise. Basically, the opponent says, "I have a limping hand." And now you have to respond. I don't care what my hand is, I'm punishing the limper, and stealing his money.

The players to act behind are left to think: Ok - limper wants to play, but Hero raised... then they evaluate their hand, which usually sucks, so they fold. Goes back around to the limper, and now he has a choice to make. Well, it would have been nice to see a flop with QJ, but I have to call 3x my original bet amount? I mean, what could Hero have? At least an Ace, if not a pocket pair... Etc.

Sometimes, things just don't work out, but that's ok. You might have your bluff re-raised, but this is to be expected, because it'll happen occasionally. Don't stop doing what you have to do! Focus on decisionmaking and looking for opportunities to steal, because let's face it, it's not often we're hit with the deck.

Here's an example of the line. This is taken from tonight's Stars $4 180 SnG, which I'm still playing in, and currently ITM (on life support!)

Seat 1: ingloo (6230 in chips)
Seat 2: huskies33 (5995 in chips)
Seat 3: Timasticore (4989 in chips)
Seat 4: kellygirl63 (3230 in chips)
Seat 5: EsqWire (6230 in chips)

^ I'm not doing too bad. I had recently (w/in 2-3 orbits) been moved from a table with 2 chipleader stacks, so this is where I'd much rather be.

Seat 6: HotPinkie26 (6205 in chips)
Seat 7: JustinSean (6110 in chips)
Seat 8: t-roy14 (4480 in chips)
Seat 9: Just due it (11360 in chips)
ingloo: posts the ante 25
huskies33: posts the ante 25
Timasticore: posts the ante 25
kellygirl63: posts the ante 25
EsqWire: posts the ante 25
HotPinkie26: posts the ante 25
JustinSean: posts the ante 25
t-roy14: posts the ante 25
Just due it: posts the ante 25
HotPinkie26: posts small blind 100
JustinSean: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to EsqWire [2s 9c]
t-roy14: folds
Just due it: folds
ingloo: folds
huskies33: folds
Timasticore: folds
kellygirl63: calls 200

^ Limping from LP? Limping from LP when there are antes? Don't limp from LP - it's incredibly weak, especially when you have the opportunity to open for a raise.

EsqWire: raises 600 to 800

^ I always raise in this situation, and cards don't matter. The limper has shown me that he's already weak, and the players to act behind have to worry about not only my raise, but the fact that limper might call.

HotPinkie26: folds
JustinSean: folds
kellygirl63: folds
EsqWire collected 925 from pot
EsqWire: doesn't show hand

^ Standard!

So what do we need to know?
-When you're in late position, pay attention to what people are doing before you.
-Late in the tournament, it's imperative that you chip up: look for stealing opportunities not only from the blinds, but from MP-LP limpers!
-Limping is weak, it's not suggested!
-When doing this bluff, I like to raise 3x-4x the original bet. If person limped for 500, then I make it 1500 or 2000 to go.
-NEVER min raise, because you're bluffing with air, and min raises don't have fold equity. You're hoping the opponent finds a fold here.

If you don't already selectively use this type of bluff, you should really considering experiementing with it. Don't let miss opportunities keep you from that deep cash! GL.

[Nikita]

Great thread. I've never considered trying to steal from limpers like this before.

[BlibbityBlabbity]

Nice thread.

I have also seen a similar thing happening much more lately. This is mostly early in tournaments when there are many people limping in with weak hands trying to flop miracles.

Say the blinds are 30/60 and 4 people limp , SB calls and the BB raises the pot (roughly). Everyone folds. That is +300 chips.

This seems to work pretty well, from what I've seen, but if it doesn't work....

1) First limper calls the raise and then the second limper says "well, I'm getting odds" and calls, other limpers call and you are in 2nd position after the flop in a 6 way LARGE pot.

2) Getting a call doesn't mean they have a big hand. They just might have called off 1/5 of their stack with 9Ts (with position on the BB raiser).

3) Continuation betting can be tricky if you get a call (or more) since you know the range of hands they started with is so wide.

I have rarely seen the BB raisers cards in this spot, so it is hard to say if they really did have big hands (PPs?) or if this is a move that is made with any two.

Personally, I think the move you posted is a much stronger play since you will have position regardless. The BB steal either works or gets you in trouble for a large portion of your stack.

[Talking Poker]

I am just now getting around to reading this. Nice post, Lou.

Two comments:

1. I use the same "punish the limper" mentality in cash games, but it's much more effective in the situation you described.

2. I think raising only 3x their bet may be a little bit light. I would normally go for 4x, but 3.5x would probably be my bare minimum with air.

[Aequitas58]

You are correct. Looking back (and for those thinking about this in the future) 4x is probably preferred in this spot.

[juiCe[3x]]

Very nice thread, I'm deffinatly going to try this out.

[Aequitas58]

Unless you're an experienced player, comfortable with post-flop play (esp. w/ air ... lol) wait till the blinds get up to the 100/200 level. Ok 75/150.

Point is: there's more fold equity when the blinds are higher. If you try this line at 25/50, yea, you might take it down, but more often than not, the original limper realizes it's only 150-200 more to go and quite simply at this level, he's usually calling.

Enjoy placing deeper in tournaments.

[Kurn]

Good Post. One of the guys on 2+2 brought this concept to my attention a couple of years ago. He called it "nobody is allowed to limp on my button."

I think one caveat should be that if you do this with any 2, you should almost always confine it to the button, if for no other reason than you want to be guaranteed position if called. It can be done one or two off the button if you're somewhat selective about your cards.

The second point is you have to be willing to follow through on the flop if called *and* the texture of the flop is right for a cb.

[Kurn]

This tactic worked very well for me in those massive MM $2.5M sats.

[Aequitas58]

Position as you mentioned, is important. Rarely do I try this line outside of the CO or Button.

[Van_Broke]

Nice article, a couple questions.
Are you more reluctant to do this against an EP limp?
More or less likely to do it against 2 or more limpers?
I find that an average stack at those levels is barely above 10 bbs. If we are going to raise 4bb, what is the minimum stack size we should have to make this kind of play?

[Aequitas58]

Good questions - show's you're thinking about how to apply it in certain situations. I'll provide my answers in bold below.

That's it for now!

[Van_Broke]

Awesome Aeq, thanks. I played in 2 $4 180s last night and put this to use. In one I never got any hands and busted half way so I didn't really get a chance, but in the other one I got a stack early and used this play at least 4 times. It worked great, twice I got the pot preflop, the others I got heads up and took down with a CB. Ended up finishing 3rd.

[Aequitas58]

Awesome. Glad it helped.