The Move

[Gordogg]

Does anyone employ "the move" on a regular basis?
The move is having a K or A sooted, flop comes four to your flush. You bet the four flush someone calls. You get the flush on the turn. Check it to your opponent, hopefully he bets into you and you reraise all in. It's a great move. If they fold cool on flop cool, if you hit flush cool. If they call and you don't hit flush on turn, slow down. Suggestions?

[Gordogg]

Sorry. This is NLHE by the way.

[Talking Poker]

I believe this "move" has a name: Check raise

Maybe I'm not following here, but that's what you're saying, right? Check raising the nuts on the turn?

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but I think I just don't understand. This doesn't really seem like much of a move to me. And it's so obvious what you have when you do it, it's not often you'll get paid off. I think a better move is often to just call the turn and then value bet the river. Maybe by then, he'll have a hand good enough that he can call...

[BlibbityBlabbity]

I believe it is a semi-bluff on the flop, followed by a check-raise on the turn....

Both are important plays to know WHEN to use. You have to be "sure" thay will bet on the turn and not re-raise you all in on the flop if they have anything.

[Gordogg]

Not check raise. For instance, say you have AQ spades. You bet pre flop and you get called by one or two players. Flop comes K 7 4 two spades. You bet it hard. All you have is a flush draw. They call your bet. Turn comes another spade. Then you check, they bet into you. Then you reraise big or all in. They either fold or pay you off. It's a good move, deceptive.

[Gordogg]

Blibbity Blabbity has it right. It's a semi bluff. But when you hit you check it, instead of continuing the betting process. I find you get paid off more doing this "move".

[Gordogg]

Well, yes it is check raising the nuts on the turn, but initally you are semi bluffing on the flop. I find this play is profitable because it's hard for them to put you on the nuts when you check raise on the turn. When it's a flush draw.

[BlibbityBlabbity]

ONLY against a certain type of player. A tight player WILL NOT bet without a flush in that spot. Against them you need to bet out.

I have seen a lot more of the opposite "move" where you overbet when a big hand becomes possible. Amazing how many times (given, this is in chump change ranks) people call with anything when someone goes all in when the board pairs aces on the river. You can almost hear them through the computer saying "He CAN'T have AA or he would never bet that much! I call with my two pair! "

All depends on the type of player you are in the hand with.

[Gordogg]

I agree. But the beauty of the move is they will foldon the flop when you don't have shit yet. Or they will call your move, and when you do hit it on the turn they are more apt to call your raise because it threw them off. If they fold on the turn then oh well. But I think you give y ourself a good shot at winning some chips in that situation by employing the move.

[junYUN]

you think someone is more apt to call a check-raise?

you're making my head hurt

[Gordogg]

Depends on what they have of course, but for the most part yeah. They will be willing to call when they have an inferior hand alot of times.

[Talking Poker]

Deceptive? Are you serious? I think this is probably the most obvious way to play this hand. If I'm the guy who bet when the third flush car hit the board and you raise me all in, no way am I calling unless I have a full house draw (2 pair or a set) and the right odds to do so.

Yes, the best on the flop is technically a semi-bluff, but that early in the hand, I wouldn't even think of it like that. I think of that more on the turn when there is only one card to come. This bet is just playing aggressively (this is a good thing, of course).

[Talking Poker]

You are check raising. This is about the surest sign of a monster hand there is. And you are doing so after the third flush card hits the board. How is it hard for them to put you on the flush, when your betting it literally saying, "I just made my flush!"

[junYUN]

considering he thinks this is a revolutionary move... i can safely assume he will be shocked that we think it is obvious

[Talking Poker]

Sorry, but I'm with junYUN here... Yes, a check raise may be more likely to get them to put SOME chips in the pot than if you had lead out (they may have folded), but no way is it more likely to get them to put ALL their chips in the pot.

When you check raise, you are basically saying, "I have a monster and I just tricked you into putting some of your chips in the pot," and most players will fold inferior hands most of the time here. If they are a good enough player to think you are a good enough player to be capable of check raise bluffing all in, they might call, but I fear I am way ahead of myself even entioning that logic in this thread. Most of the time, any non-horrible player is going to fold an inferior hand here... They certainly are not going to be MORE likely to call.

[2Tone]

Is this satire, and I'm just missing the humor?

Put yourself on the opposite end of "the move." Three of the same suit on the board, and your opponent check raises all-in. What the hell do you think he has?

[junYUN]

haha i think i missed that line

[Gordogg]

I wasn't saying it would get the opponent to call your all in raise. It's intitial intent is to make the guy fold on the flop when you don't have anything yet. If he folds there great. If he calls your bet, and you hit your flush, check it in hopes that he will bet into you. (I forgot to mention, I'm talking about A or K high flush draws only) If you lead out on the turn when you make your flush, he will probably fold unless he has a flush as well. If you check you give him the opportunity to bluff at you, or bet a lesser hand su ch as trips or two pair. That part is simply just check raising on the turn when you have the goods. Most of you guys are decent players so I'm sure this isn't really a "move" in your eyes at all. It seems to work well for me on Party though. Laters.

[ChipFish]

Nahhhh, Never tried it... Does this really work?

[BrianSwa]

here is another cool move, was wondering if any of you have ever tried it.


say you have AA and the flop comes down AA6 and you check it waiting for your opponents to catch up. Anyone else ever do this? its soooo sneaky.

[Talking Poker]

You are so not allowed to make sarcastic posts like this. I think you have actually POSTED HHs like this in the "How Should I have Played This?" section. Don't make me go find one.

[Gordogg]

I'll take everyone elses shit but yours Brian. You are a fucking drama queen, bi-polar, schitzofrenic moron. You contribute bullshit 99% of the time and you can't keep your mouth shut here or on the poker tables. I hope I meet you in the first round of the heads up tourney so I can crush your dumb ass.

[Gordogg]

My point exactly. Plus he's a douche. "I need someone to play this freeroll for me, chipfish or pshabi, oh nevermind I found someone else to play. OK nevermind, chipfish or pshabi again. "I'm going to play in the HU tourney, no I'm not I'm taking a break." In a day or two we'll see "OK I want to play in the HU, I hope there is still room for me TP." That's why I hope to see him in the first round, because I know he is going to want to play again before Aug. 1st.

[Talking Poker]

Easy there.... I love the smack talk part of this post, but the rest is a bit overboard.

Just trying to head things off here before they spin out of control like has happened with other people in the past.

[ChipFish]

I voted for Pshabi.