Starting Hands

[hc422709]

Well, I didn't really know where to put it, but considering it has something to do with "hand discussion" ... good enuf for me.

I'm down $.35 for this session with these starting hands:
[3d 6s][4c 8h][Jd 2c][Td Kh][6h Qc][Qd Kc][Ah 8d][6h 9s][2c 9s][4c Jd][4h Jd][4d Qc][4d 9h][2c 3d][Qs 4d][8d As][8d Tc][2d 2c][5s 3d][9d Ac][6h Jh][Th 2d][7h 2d][3h Qc][7d 6c][6h Jh][9c 4h][5c 4c][5s Js][Jh Qd][Jc 4h][8s Ac][7h Ks][8s 9c][4c 6h]

Can u expect -EV with this string of hands?

[Reel Deal]

LOL... what are you playing? Ring? Tourney? Limit? NL?

[Talking Poker]

Yes, we need much more info please...

Also, for hands like 94o/72o/etc... Did you really play those? If so, my God, why?

[hc422709]

ok sorry, I should've clarified, uh...
Ring game NL, those were just my hh, I didn't actually play all of them, I played 13 of those 33 but I was just wondering if ... actually, which cards in there would u play in 0.01/0.02 NLHE full table?

I'm thinking TK, QK, A8, 22, A9, 54, JQ, (76o, 46o (just to mix things up))

[Talking Poker]

You're asking an unanswerable question. You haven't told us your position for each hand, the action in front of you, etc...

Sorry, but it's just imossible to answer this.

[Reel Deal]

hc, I would suggest that you go watch some of the videos here.

[Talking Poker]

That's an excellent suggestion!

That, or buy ANY poker book.

[hc422709]

OK, yeah, this was a bad question...i've borrowed/read all the books argh

I guess im just nervous and playing with scared money.

Thinking back, I think I was just trying to justify my loss of $0.35 with getting bad cards.

but, yeah...the vids, good times... good times.

[Talking Poker]

You know you're talking about 35 cents, right?

Like, maybe 3 minutes of work if you work at McDonalds.....

Don't beat yourself up too much.

[Invigilator]

Little green book has a nice starting hands system, although it is primarily oriented (not orientated) towards opening the pot from various positions.

[Talking Poker]

Melioris posted a nice Excel starting hand guide (by position) that he found a long time ago. Maybe someone can find it or he can link to it again. I know a number of the newer players found it useful.

It may have been for limit though....

[melioris]

here is an excel 6-max suggestion chart. People mock playing off a chart, but when you are starting out it can help you build experience, gain comfort at the table, and most importantly, help you learn the discipline required to be a winning player. There is a reason it is called grinding.

Postflop play is much more challenging to learn and playing off a chart preflop will simplify the postflop decisions. This sounds crazy but I think for micro-players it can be sound postflop advice. If you are playing within your bankroll, pretend the "call" button isn't there postflop. Either bet/raise or fold. Every time, on every street. And don't bluff. Ever. It is not +EV in micro. You can certainly CB, as that is different than a straight bluff. A continuation bet "CB" is if you raise preflop and get one (or more-although rarely CB into two or more players at micro stakes) callers. The flop will be checked to you and although you missed the flop entirely, fire a 50-75% pot bet, as you would if you hit the flop.


Before you use it, you should look it over and try and figure out why the requirements are different for different positions. Don't give me the bullshit nonthinking "position is important" answer. Really play out some hands in your head and figure it out for yourself. Winning poker=work, even at the micro levels. Don't be afraid to do the work.

[Talking Poker]

I like this so much that I +Repped you for it, but that said, I disagree with one part of it. See bold above.

If you want to say bet/raise on the flop and on the turn, I'm ok with that (even though I still think there are plenty of times when you can't three bet someone, but shouldn't fold just because they raised you), but there are DEFINITELY times on the river where you should be calling. In fact, I'd say MOST of the time on the river, you should be calling instead of raising when you have a hand...

[melioris]

thanks for the love....


I concede that on the river, when facing a bet, you should either fold or call, but only ever raise when you have the nuts. But the river only.

Whatever value you lose by folding instead of calling on the other streets is negligible when compared to value you gain by learning discipline and poker concepts that bet/fold postflop poker teaches.

[Talking Poker]

That's a good point.

And I'm not advocating only raising on the river with the nuts... there are lots of times when you should raise - FH with a flush on board, when you fell into a backdoor flush and you think opponent has a strong enough hand to call, etc, etc... But MOIST of the time, you're probably going to be calling. Also, it's often much better to check/call on the river than to bet/?, especially when you have a medium strength hand and you think your opponent whiffed a draw. It gives him a chance to bluff.

[hc422709]

hey, thanks everyone for the help. Especially the excel chart.

I find that 35cents seems much more when you start with a $0 bankroll, and you realize it took you 1 year to reach the $25 mark.


But yeah, thanks again!

[Invigilator]

Thanks. I might have to take another shot at 6max.

[Talking Poker]

Honestly, I can't figure out why anyone would play anything else. The full ring games just can't be as +EV, can they?

[hc422709]

Full ring games aren't +EV?

My strategy there is to wait for the nuts and get them to throw money at me.

[Talking Poker]

I suppose that kind of ultra-nit strategy would work at .01/.02. I've never played there, so I wouldn't really know. That's not the best strategy for higher limits though.

And I didn't say they aren't +EV... I said "as +EV."

[hc422709]

hm... considering the type of players who play Micro, (calling stations) ... shouldn't I play more crappier hands? like 98o so if I hit a monster I get paid off, and if I miss completely I only lose 2 cents and can easily throw the hand away?


just a thought

[juiCe[3x]]

Don't create bad habits because they will hurt you a lot when you move up in stakes. So I wouldn't do it, unless u can control yourself and not make it a habit.

[Talking Poker]

Wait... I thought you said you were nut peddling... which is it?

If you are consistently beating .01/.02, move up. It's hard to have a serious discussio nabout how to maximize EV at that level, when in reality, if you are KILLING the game, you'd probably still make more working for minimum wage.

You said yourself - it took you a year to earn $25.

[MAYHEM45]

Haha, yeah really, If I hadn't made 50 bucks my first day playing I probably would have quit poker forever or killed myself.

[Robbr25]

Play within your bankroll.
If your bankroll is big enough to move up, you should move up.
To maximize your winnings.