Online Pausing before bet

BlibbityBlabbity · #1 10-22-04, 10:22 AM

Looking for opinions:

What, if anything, do you you think can be read into online players pausing before betting?

This seems like a pretty big online tell, although one that can be faked easily, if the player is conscious of it.

Anybody have any success taking advantage of it, OR eliminating it from their game if they realize they are giving away info by the time they take in cetain situations vs a quick bet in others?

GeoffM · #2 10-22-04, 10:30 AM

To be honest, I don't read too much into it. The player could be thinking about a draw, or taking a pee for all you know. However, recognizing a pattern could develop into a great player note on the player. Other than that, it really just aggrevates me.

2Tone · #3 10-22-04, 11:39 AM

Which could account for delayed actions as well. I tend not to read much into it, but like Geoff get annoyed when four players take a combined three minutes to fold to a modest raise.

PShabi · #4 10-22-04, 11:47 AM

Look for a pattern, but don't read too much into it. I play at work and maybe doing something on the computer before I realize that it's my turn to act.

GeoffM · #5 10-22-04, 11:49 AM

This is the only time I will use the pre-action buttons on-line. Usually, I try to wait for my turn, wait 3 seconds consistently and then fold/call/raise. But when people are taking forever, I usually just pre-click what I will be doing so I don't stare at the screen and start cursing and such. This could cause me to go on "tilt" (and for some reason, I don't like that word). But perhaps at times that is what the slow-poke is trying to achieve.

PShabi · #6 10-22-04, 12:07 PM

Similarly, but contrasting as well, I use the pre-action buttons almost everytime. Especially in limit.

bothecorgi · #7 10-22-04, 12:31 PM

The use of action buttons can be a tell if the player consistently uses it but then waits before acting. I have tried to eliminate this tell by not using the action buttons and counting to 5 consistently before taking any action.

Tilter · #8 10-22-04, 01:08 PM

I believe that a long pause (trying to represent strength by thinking long) and then checking is an easy sign of weakness.

Talking Poker · #9 10-22-04, 01:10 PM

I use the pre-action buttons all the time - well, when I am raising anyway. I've never used the "Call Any" button in my life.

Back to the original question... a lot of times it's nothing. I play multiple tables at once, so sometimes there are delays before I act, and it is certainly not a tell.

But, with that said, if you are looking for a very general strong/weak read here that will be right more of the time than not, I tend to think a long delay before a raise (not a call) means strength. The player is acting - and acting poorly.

Jackass_man · #10 10-22-04, 01:16 PM

If someone raises me and I have the best hand I'll usually do the old pause like i'm thinking hard about it, then smooth call and trap him after. Or if I'm trying to act like my hand is weak or when I'm running to the fridge or taking a piss is another time you might pause.

TajaUk · #11 10-22-04, 07:16 PM

Aye the Pause is an excellent tool.

If someone's taking there time making a bet they either lag or making a decision how much to raise.

It's also great to use against people who all in, when u have no intention to call but make them sweat it out :P

ChipFish · #12 10-23-04, 02:08 AM

I use the check/fold box only.... or the Fold box.... and lately the "check" box.
The fold box is obvious... I have no intention of staying in the hand...

As for the Check/fold, I like that because I have already decided to fold to any bet ahead of me.... I am hoping for a free card, However, if it is checked through me, and there is a bet behind me, I will re-evaluate, and then make a decision to stay in the hand or re-raise. ( I tend to lean on the re-raise side)

The "Check" box is nice, because if it checks through you, other players assume very quickly that you had the (Check/fold) buttion clicked.
I just had no intention of opening the betting, and will most likely call or re-raise if I so desire.

eddo31 · #13 10-23-04, 02:35 AM

i only use the check/fold box as well. i never use the other boxes.

i think that the pause in general is not much of a tell online, just because your opponent is just as likely to be playing multiple tables as anything else.

johnbaker · #14 10-23-04, 03:50 AM

in higher stakes games maybe.. but in lower stakes games, especially NL games, ESPECIALLY on partypoker, people pausing a while then raising means real strength... a quick bet usually means weakness

ChipFish · #15 10-23-04, 07:50 AM

WRONG.

Penguinfan · #16 10-23-04, 08:41 AM

That is the best point in this thread so far, I have found myself guilty of doing just that and when people caught on it was costing me. I am very conscience of not doing that anymore while I will definatly watch for it in others.

The pause could be a lag in connection as well though, hhmm.

BlibbityBlabbity · #17 10-23-04, 09:30 AM

I have also found players where a short pause before a bet is a bluff, when they bet strong hands fast.

I think the key is that this tell can ONLY be identified individually after watching a while. I agree with most that there are a host of other reasons someone would take a few seconds (or more) to act.

As far as getting rid of this tell in your own play, I agree with a couple of you that takeing the same amount of time before every action is a good idea.

A while back I was heads up at a single and I was doing well, picking up some pots with bluffs when I knew he didnt have it. Then after about ten minutes he started calling all my plays. I think it was that I was betting out quickly if I had something, and thinking (just for a second or two) if I was considering a bluff/semi-bluff. He didnt say anything but, the next day I read on RGP someone describing that exact situation, where I really thought he was talking about our tourney. So, I stopped doing that REALLY FAST and now just try not to act too quickly on a hand no matter what the situation.

Seeing how well I think it worked in that tournament, I think it can be used to set people up in certain situations (but only if they are paying attention).

Jackass_man · #18 10-23-04, 10:45 AM

I think this so called tell isn't a tell at all since there a so many contributing factors to way a person is slow to make a desicion.
like:
-playing multible tables
- internet lag
-preoccuped with t.v. or surfing the net
-taking a piss or going to the fridge

BlibbityBlabbity · #19 10-23-04, 11:29 AM

I agree it definetly is not a standard "every time someone takes 3 seconds, they are bluffing thing", but it can be if you see a trend in it, just like other betting tells.

johnbaker · #20 10-23-04, 03:25 PM

no, i'm right. this applies only to low stakes partypoker games, pay more attention to what i say plz

-jB

Defendant · #21 10-23-04, 03:34 PM

To be honest, I dont think a pause is a tell, but an immediate check most likely is. Lets say youre on the button, 3 people in front of you in the hand after the flop. First guy checks, and like a machine gun, the next 2 behind him check...very likely they used their check/fold button. That should tell you you can probably push them out.

For that reason, the only time I use the check/fold autoplay when I am last to act, to not give away TOO much about my hand.

Defendant

ChipFish · #22 10-24-04, 12:02 AM

Here's something to try for all of you...
Write a list of what you think
a pause followed by a check means.
a pause followed by a raise means,
no pause followed by a check means,
and no pause followed by a raise means.

You will have two (or three) possible answers, usually being strength or weakness....
Now try using a mixture of all of these methods.
For example, try a pause raise when you have the nutflush, then try a no-pause raise the next time you have the nuts. Follow that up with a no-pause check when you have the nuts a third time.... Rest assured, someone is most likely taking notes on your every move.... At least play that way.
Try not to use pause betting as a very strong decision maker.
Try instead to learn the betting patterns of a particilar player....
Believe me most have very discernable(sp?) betting patterns that virtually scream out what hole cards they have.

Now I have to find a John Baker Post to mis-read

Tuff Luck · #23 10-24-04, 12:12 AM

I usually use the preset buttons- mainly when raising or calling the current bet but never the call any. I only really pause when a player makes a big move that forces me to actually think about.

2Tone · #24 10-24-04, 12:25 AM

[quote=ChipFish]Here's something to try for all of you...
Write a list of what you think
a pause followed by a check means.
a pause followed by a raise means,
no pause followed by a check means,
and no pause followed by a raise means.
Rest assured, someone is most likely taking notes on your every move.... At least play that way.
QUOTE]

Not sure about this one ...
ChipFish are you actually taking such notes? How many people really are, at least in the 2/4 games at Party? And even if they were, when the CD ends, it's time for me to change it, no matter what hand I have. So I'd love/hate to think people are reading this much into how long it take me to act.