JD, Boobie > Me

[Talking Poker]

I decided to give 3/6 NL a shot this week. I've played pretty high limit games (and very high tourney buy ins - duh) in the past, but in NL cash games, 2/4 is the highest I've ever gone.... well, for more than a few hands, anyway.

So.... things started off great. I finished my first session up $800ish. The next session was down $1200 or so, I think. I had had a couple of sessions where I was around even (+ or - 0 to $300), including last night's where I started off well, but then took a lot of annoying beats and finished down a bit.

Today has been UGLY. Fortunately, I've ALSO been playing 2/4 and winning there - up $500 today (correction - now $400 thanks to that 4 outer), but for 3/6, I'm down... let's see... carry the one... something like $900 or so.

My total for the month at 3/6 is -1400. I kow thats "only" 2.5 buy ins, but it's still frustrating... This is over 1600 hands played, which I also realize is a small sample. I think it's most frustrating because I'm down something like $2500-3000 from my peak.

All in all, I'd have to say my luck has been "average" to a little below average. It was a bit above to start, but has definitely been below recently:
FH runs into quads
Top two loses to gutshot
My straight gives my opponent a FH (2 outs)
Etc.

That said, I've made a couple of bad moves I didn't need to make... OVerall, I thought I was playing a little too passively, so a few times I've done what Boobie said and made a play when I sensed weakness. This has worked, but it's also cost me when they come back over the top. If I had to guess, I'd say I'm a bit down in those situations overall.

Note that I don't really have a question here, but comments are welcome, as is encouragement.

One thing I will say, and this surprised me a bit, but the 2/4 game seems a lot softer now that I've logged some hands at 3/6.

OK, I guess I do have a question: JD/Boobie/anyone - when you made this particular move (or other similar moves), did you lose at first, or were you winning off the bat?

I guess I know I can beat this game, but there are a couple of adjustments I need to make still. I've seen some plays here that I NEVER saw (other than me doing them) at 2/4... so I need to give me opponents a little more credit.

Anyway... hopefully I'll learn to crush/dominate these games like Boobie and JD someday. Maybe I should give Bodog a whirl. I hate how it doesn't support PT though. That's the main reason I've avoided it... well, that, their lack of 6 max games, and their sucky interface.

P.S. After rolling steadily (no huge pots) as I've been typing this, I'm now up > $600 in my 2/4 game. At least that's going well.

[Talking Poker]

One thing I want to add... IMO, the biggest difference between 2/4 and 3/6 (and this is probably true for any level) is there are significantly less BAD players. The good players are better too, I assume, but the biggest difference I see is less fish.

Oh... and another thing: When I play 2/4, sure I see some good players, but no one that I think is DEFINITELY better than me. At 3/6, I've spotted a few of those guys. The biggest difference between how they play and how I play is that they are much more aggressive (and I'm pretty aggressive). They reraise more often preflop, mainly. I guess I need to work on that.

Boobie/JD - I know it depends, but whjat is your typical reraising range against:
1. Soft (Passive) Tables
2. Average Tables
3. Tables with at least one or two really aggressive guys

[Zybomb]

From my experience, I didn't notice as much of a difference between 2/4 and 3/6 as you seem to... both felt like the same game to me, just with slightly larger bets. The reason for this feel is from a 1/2 to a 2/4 game everything doubles in essence. Standard raises of (we'll just say 4x BB) $8 become $16. Preflop CBs of $10 become $20 etc. When you move to 3/6 things don't double, they just bump up a little bit, so it doesn't feel as if you've really moved up. I think aggression is rewarded in both games. When I was on a hot streak, a minimum of one time per session (per table) I'd limp UTG with a medium strength hand, which should clearly be folded UTG (A8s, 98s 44 KTs etc) and then limp reraise once someone put in a raise. If I was called, I'd pound the flop. Not once was I ever 'caught' making this play (this is full tables btw and used only 1x per session). Players are more aggressive, but they are also more likely to fold to your aggression when you have control over the pot not them, so you can use this to your advantage, where in the lower limits players may call with TP on the flop despite oyur preflop action for example.

The thing is I felt this held true for both 2/4 and 3/6, both games had their share of fish, maybe 2/4 had a few more, but I thought the good players were equally as good and I didn't see a huge difference in the aggression level

Not really answering too much, just rambling for whatever its worth

[Boobie Lover]

When I first started playing 3/6, I crushed it. This was mostly at Bodog, so that is not saying much. Playing at Party and Full Tilt is far, far more aggressive than Bodog and is more difficult because of this. Although there are some aggressive players at Bodog, a lot of them just spew chips in spots that don't really make any sense.

I've played some Party 5/10, and it plays way bigger than Bodog with everyone reraising preflop, squeezing, and generally just puts me in spots that I am uncomfortable with. The variance in that game is a little too much for me to handle right now, so I'm just sticking to Bodog 3/6 6max until Bodog adds 5/10 shorthanded tables (which support says they will add shortly).

As for my reraising range, it is mostly dependent upon what I think of the player(s) and what the others think of me. If he is a huge calling station who can't fold top pair, I'll stick to a tight reraising range. If I think he can fold a weak overpair and I haven't been doing much, I'll reraise him relentlessly (any pair, lots of suited connectors, etc.) I also don't like to reraise with dominated hands like Ax since it puts me in a really tough spot if I hit my hand postflop, so it's mostly just low cards that aren't dominated or good hands.

[Zybomb]

Agreed 100%, particularly the bold

[LowKey]

I have never really played 2/4 so I'm not the best person to comment on the difference between levels but I'm assuming you have probably just found yourself up against some tough tables / opponents at 3/6. At Full Tilt there is plenty of bad players mixed in amongst some very good ones. I think table selection is just as important as anything else (once you get to be a competent player). If you are finding yourself at tables where you are uncomfortable or can't spot a weak player then you should probably look for another table.

[JDMcNugent7]

TP, who cares about Poker Tracker. just switch to Bodog.
they are Bad.

and i dn i re-raise mainly only with good hands when its 6 person or higher, obviously that changes when im down to 2 or 3 ppl, where ill raise and re-raise with seriously anything depending on the opponent.

and i have never switched to a new limit and start off killing it. i always lose at first, not so much b/c of the better players, but b/c i start playin dumb thinkin im playin with alot more $. eventually i get used to it.

also, realize theres a huge diff between tournies and cash games. i have no idea why, but i feel like u might play cash games pretty similiar to the way u play tournies.

[Talking Poker]

First, welcome to the forum!

. Just kidding, of course. LowKey, IMO, is one of the top 3/6 players I've played with. To give you an idea, my PT stats have him at +$1700 through 531 hands (27 BB/100). I'm sure that's somewhat inflated, but still... He plays 27/23 vs. my 34/17. That alone is a very telling difference, and one that I should probably adjust (JD and Boobie have numbers closer to his as well, I think).

Anyhoo, you make a good point about table selection, and that is STILL something I don't do well enough. I'm easily able to spot the weak player(s) at my table, but I'm not sure I'm choosing the best tables in the first place. At Full Tilt, the way I've been picking is looking through them and finding the tables with the shortest stacks - tables where 2-3 guys are sitting with half a buy in or so. I figure that screams weakness, so I target them. I haven't done any extensive datamining or that sort of thing, like you can do so much more easily on Party. Anyway, any other advice for table selection?

[Talking Poker]

That's not it. I definitely play them a lot differently. But you're right in that I'm a much stronger tourney player than a cash game player.......... right now, anyway. I'm working on it.

[JDMcNugent7]

wow i do the exact opposite. i look for the bigger stacks unless i know them to be very good. i never want to sit at a table with a bunch of short stacks.

EDIT: we should probably all play 1 3/6 table and make each other better. . seriously - we could even say how much one person wins, they actually only get 1/2 of or sumthin. ya know?

[Talking Poker]

That's not a bad idea at all. We could set up a Private table on Party and go all out against each other. Then in the end, the winner(s) could transfer back half of their winnings to the loser(s) to keep it friendlier.

Even without doing a save like that, we should all play together (at these limits). This would definitely be -EV for me though without the save, unless of course you factor in how much this could improve my game against other people.

I'd like to have at least 5 players to do this though... otherwise, it's a different game anyway.

[JDMcNugent7]

me u boobie lowkey and mayhem?

[Zybomb]

I'll be a sixth if needed, if it could be done on a different site beside party

[Boobie Lover]

Lowkey and JD own me, but I'd be up for a private game.

[Talking Poker]

Yeah, and all three of you own me. Zy only has me by a little bit

The reason I suggested Party is because we could get a private table going there, but we could do it elsewhere on a non-private table. If we all join a new table right away, we should fill it up.

Man, LowKey is gonna love the goldmind that is us donkeys!

Honestly, I'll be interested to see how this plays out, because playing each other is going to be a lot different than playing the average table, ya know?

[JDMcNugent7]

it will be nothing like playin an avg. table. it will be weird.

[Talking Poker]

Then maybe it's not the best idea. Maybe I should just hop on AIM and rail you for an hour or two some night.

[MAYHEM45]

Id be in for this.

[JDMcNugent7]

well it will def. make all of us better i would think. i mean being too good for ur opponents cant be a bad thing, if u understand that ur better than them.

[Robbr25]

Agreed if you play them enough to win back the money they donk off of you.

[Talking Poker]

Well, tonight's the TP FF draft.... maybe after that, or else we could pick a time in advance and make sure everyone can make it.

[Boobie Lover]

I believe the private game would be more fun with 2/4-3/6 NL regular, eejit101.

[BrianSwa]

will you lend him the money for it?

[Talking Poker]

If he were to sit down $500+ of his own money, I'd toss him $50 to play until the game breaks up (or he breaks). If the others would agree to do the same, it's practically a can't lose deal for him!

[PShabi]

Why would a player who turns an 86% ROI at SNGs waste his time with puny cash games? Idiut.