Some initial $27 Stars Turbo SNG numbers...

[johnp158]

Over the last month or so and especially the last week I've been playing a bunch of $27 Turbo 9-man SNGs on Stars. I'm 4-tabling, and I can finish a set of 4 in about 45 minutes. My sample size is small, but I thought I'd post some initial numbers. I know there's some stuff I need to work on. I think there are too many bubbles and not enough 1sts once I get ITM. I wouldn't expect the %ITM to jump more than a couple points, though. Anybody who has any thoughts let me know. It's definitely a grind.

327 SNGs

Buyin + Fees - $8829
Won - $9765
Net - $936
ROI - 10.6%
ITM - 40.37%

Breakdown by finish:
1st - 41
2nd - 47
3rd - 44
4th - 46
5th - 46
6th - 36
7th - 40
8th - 16
9th - 11

Hopefully I'll keep people posted with updates. I would like to see maybe a 14ish ROI after a bunch more of these.

[Boobie Lover]

The turbos' winrate is less than a regular tournament. I would guess that if you can get to 15% you are very, very good. 10% seems like a good winrate at these.

[eejit101]

my stats were from about 100 of those, but i cant 4 table, my screen sucks, i was 3 tabling max.

The variance in this is HUGE compared to the normal ones. I won 11 in a row, then could not win a hand for about 20. Im pretty sure ive gone from a 63% ROI to about 15% ROI.

[Talking Poker]

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but the only thing that stands out to me a little bit are you lack of 8th and 9th place finishes. I wonder if you were to take a few more chance early, and bust out more 8th and 9th, if you would also get a big stack early that would help you get more 1sts-3rds (especially 1sts), as opposed to the pretty much flat distribution you have now from 7th through 1st.

In other words... by taking some more chances early (pump up the aggression and put your opponents to the test, push in with big draws - basically, try to double up early more often), I would think that your 8th and 9th numbers would increase, your 4th-7th numbers would decrease, and hopefully your 1st-3rd numbers would increase.

Does that make sense? If my theory is correct, since 4th-7th pay the same as 8th and 9th, this would increase both your ITM and ROI...

Just a thought.

[New Guy]

I play a ton of 50+5 sit n go's and was pretty much in the same boat .I losend my game up early which lead to of course more early exits but definatly more ITM finishes. Try that out im sure you'll find it to your advantage!!!!

[johnp158]

It is pretty much commonly accepted right now that the key to beating SNGs is VERY tight early, preserving your stack, so you have enough chips to push later. This obviously is with the understanding that you are pushing with a bigger range of hands than people are calling with. This is the strategy you'd find if you were to look at PokerXFactor (sheets is their SNG guy) or most of the posts on pocketfives. I'm pretty sure 2+2 is the same. There are some dissenters, but most people agree that this is the best strategy. Especially for the turbos, I think this is best. A big stack is good, clearly, but survival is more important. It's sort of weird to think like that, especially since a much different strategy can be really helpful for MTTs.

I was definitely struck by the low number of 8th and 9th finishes too. I agree with the sentiment and see why you would immediately think that I should loosen up early, but that's just not general wisdom right now. If nothing else, it's good for multitabling, because if I've busted in a couple, I can have 2 going where the blinds are high and it's fast and furious, and 2 where the blinds are low and I'm almost in autofold mode.

[johnp158]

By winrate you mean ROI, right? I've yet to find any good articles on a sustainable ROI for turbos, but a *good* player is supposed to be able to sustain between 16-20% at comparable buyins for regular SNGs. I say comparable because I've only seen data for 22s and 33s, since they don't have regular 27s.

[johnp158]

BTW, by "tight" please don't take that to mean I would ever fold KK or QQ preflop early on. Well, I guess I could envision scenarios for folding QQ. But you wouldn't believe how many people sit in these just itching to get all-in with 44-88 in the first few hands.

[Boobie Lover]

Yes, I meant ROI. I played the $27s back in Febuary and was at 8% ROI after about 1500 of them. The consistent winners were around 10-15%.

[Aequitas58]

10% ROI is good to start with.

Contrary to what TP suggested, I would tighten up some more. If you can finish less in 6th and 7th (stay patient - blinds still small!) the numbers will distribute more in the top half, which includes first, second, and third.

ALWAYS REMEMBER: the point of a SNG is to make the top three. Once you do that, then you focus on first place.

In General, turbo SNGs are more push/fold poker when the blinds are heavier... that is, exploit your pre-flop edges when your M gets to 10ish. Turbo SNGs are meant to be won pre-flop.

[Aequitas58]

Yes. Turbos are a weird beast ... it's actually contrary to MTT strategy where you would want to take some chances. The more limping, calling, etc the more you simply lose equity when the blinds increase.

[JDMcNugent7]

I don't think because its basically "common knowledge to play tight early for a good winrate" or wutever the quote was, means everyone has to do it. Maybe the fish that cant get away from a hand after they flop 2nd pr. - but if ur better then them I see no reason why its so bad. I've played my share of Turbo $215's on party and I didnt concentrate on playing real tight early just cuz thats "commonly accepted" and my win rate was pretty nice - and i had alot more 8th and 9th finishes than u.

I basically agree with wut TP said.

[johnp158]

I'm not saying that you *can't* open up your play more early on. But to act like that is just a weak way to play that's only for people not good enough to get away from problem hands is just wrong. There are a lot of VERY good SNG players who use this strategy. Turbo SNGs, for the most part, are about making +EV pushes when the blinds get high.

[Aequitas58]

There's more than one way to win a tournament, but I'm get my strategy from ActionJeff.

[johnp158]

Lol. Ditto.

[johnp158]

Somebody fucking kill me now.

I'm down approximately 26 buyins in the last 3 days. And I've barely played today. I've bubbled approximately 2,453 times.

And SCREW the guy who calls off his WHOLE STACK of 12BBs with A8o ON THE BUBBLE!

[Aequitas58]

Be a man and do it yourself. The real question is: butterknife or beer?