plugging some holes- what to run

[BrianSwa]

This was sent to me on one of my other forums and it is very very well written, again I DID NOT WRITE THIS . Read it tell me what you think.



This is a post off of another forum that I found incredibly useful in plugging some of the leaks in my cash game. It is written by one of the better cash players that I know...

Hope it helps....

Let me go ahead and start this article off by prefacing a basic strategy that I believe to be both effective and novel in the sense that it is not something most people/authors would preach. Also, this is assuming a full 9 or 10 handed table. The advice given would change slightly when faced with a short 6 handed table. When I play cash games, I hardly ever raise preflop. If I do raise, it is generally with big pairs or suited connectors. The suited connectors are meant as a way to throw my opponents off balance so that every time I raise I am not suspected of a big pair. There are two keys to NL cash which I feel are the most important things to keep in mind:

1. Postflop play

2. Ability to get paid off

Now, when I am talking about postflop play, I am really talking about the playing capability of your hand postflop. When evaluating your hand in any given situation, it is important to evaluate the hand from the perspective of the next step. For instance, if you have A Q preflop, it is important to evaluate the situation postflop. Let’s say you are on the button with A Q and there is a 4x BB raise in front of you as well as 3 calls. Let us assume that the raise was in E/MP (Early/middle position) and the 3 callers are of course in front of you. In my approach to cash games, I would advocate folding the A Q preflop for a couple reasons:

1. A Q does not play well in multiway raised pots. There are a lot of possibilities as far as the holdings of your opponents. Even if you do hit your hand, you are probably up against a pocket pair or two, making it dangerous to play no matter what flops.

2. If you do hit your hand, your ability to get paid is greatly diminished. Getting paid off is of utmost importance in NL cash games. In a multiway raised pot, it is a certainty that people are playing high cards, so if an A or Q flops, you are probably not going to get paid off. If you do get a lot of action with a flop that contains an ace, you may be looking at 2 pair or a hidden set, in which case you are in big trouble.

What to play preflop - Many of you are probably asking, “What the heck should I play then???” Well, as should be obvious through my approach stated earlier in the article, you want to play hands that play well in the situation you are in while having the ability to get paid off. Let’s look at a couple examples:

Heads up pots: When you are looking at playing a pot heads up or sometimes even 3 way, hands like the A K, A Q, etc. can be very valuable indeed. As most of you know, a lot of opponents like to play high cards for raises. When you have these premium high card hands then you have a good chance of having your opponent dominated and being able to get paid without having to worry as much about hidden trips of two pair.

Spotting Sets Heads Up: Identifying a set in a heads up pot is probably one of the hardest things to do in poker. (This is why I believe hitting sets is among the most valuable hands possible) This will of course come with experience as you play many opponents and watch many different styles. Generally speaking, it is important to look for basic indicators that may give the set away.

Slowplaying - This is something that you will see a lot in the lower limit games, but the higher limit games are not immune to this at all. Look for a call on the flop and then a check/raise on the turn if you are in position. If you are out of position,or acting first, look for things like min-raises, or the smooth call on the flop and big raise on the turn. For example: Let’s say you have A K and raise it in EP. The flop is A 9 5 rainbow. You bet out and your opponent calls. OK, it is important here to judge actions not only by opponent but also by texture of the flop. A smooth call on an uncoordinated flop with no straight or flush draws is one of the biggest indicators of a set. With this flop and the fact that you raised preflop, a straight draw is extremely unlikely (although not impossible). In this situation, I would disregard the straight draw and be thinking about another ace, a possible high PP like QQ or JJ that the caller cannot let go, two pair with the A 9, or maybe even a set. On the turn, it puts another 5 on the board and you again bet. This time your opponent min-raises. Now, in this situation, you have to stop and think. Let’s go ahead and assume that our opponent is not a weak player. In this case, we will throw KK, QQ and JJ out the window. A 5 is also not likely due to the fact that you raised preflop and your opponent is not an idiot. We are left now with a hand like A 9, 9 9 and even 5 5 as some possible holdings. There is very little chance for a bluff being that you have bet out this hand twice, so I am giving my opponent credit for a big hand. The turn did not complete any draws at all, so you have to assume that this raise (which by the way is meant to KEEP you in the pot) is made by a big hand. In this situation, I would probably go ahead and fold the A K due to our analysis of the hand. On the flop, my opponent called with no foreseeable draws. On the turn, he min-raises you after you bet twice with an ace on the board. This is no bluff and you are most likely behind. Against a weaker opponent, you may choose to make this call, but remember, we are assuming a decently skilled player.These are just a couple things to watch for when looking for sets (or any big hand for that matter) and no doubt after more and more experience you will find many more ways in which to uncover monsters. Of course I cannot discuss every possible situation in which an opponent may hold a set, but these are just a couple basic playing actions that will help tip you off a bit more quickly.

What to Play - OK, we are still on point here with heads up pots. I will define heads up here strictly as a situation where it is only you and one opponent in the hand together. The types of hands you want to play in these situations are as follows:

Any big pair - This is of course common sense (AA - JJ)

High card hands like A K, A Q, with K Q and A J as afterthoughts. To be honest, hands like K Q, K J, Q 10, A 10, etc. are what I call “trouble hands” and are hands I hardly ever play. Usually the only times I play these hands are when I am up against an opponent who is raising straight up crap all the time, or when I am in the BB and the SB puts in a steal raise. Other than this, I would recommend to just drop these hands preflop and save yourself some money.

Middle pairs (10 10 - 7 7) These hands lose a lot of value in heads up pots, so I don’t recommend getting too involved with them. There is a very good chance there will be at least one overcard on the flop, so they can be very hard to play postflop unless you flop a set. I am not saying that these hands are horrible, but try to follow the rule of “no set, no bet” which will save you a lot of money and headaches when your opponent flips up J 10 after a flop of J 7 4. Try to think of pocket pairs as if you hit the flop with something like A 10. If the flop were K 10 4, you probably would not give much action to a player who is betting, but for some reason, if the flop is K 9 4 and someone holds 10 10, they think that a pocket pair is magically stronger than a regular pair and so they give action all day. This is a losing way to play poker.

Stack Size Considerations - Whenever you are thinking about playing a small or mid pocket pair for a raise in what you know will be a heads up pot, you must take into consideration the stack size of your opponent. Let's say that an EP raiser in a 5/10 NL game makes it $40 to go. You are deciding whether or not to call with position when you see that this player has 2 K sitting in front of him while you have $1200. In this situation, I would call with most any pair to try and win $1200. In essence, you are risking $40 for a shot at winning $1200. This is a great situation for you since you have position on your opponent, making the set hard to detect. Furthermore, you can fold easily if you miss the flop and not be forced to a tough decision. On the flipside, if someone with a stack of $300 makes it 4 x BB, then your implied odds will be diminished significantly. Stack size is not as important to consider in multiway pots since you are considering the total value of the money that everyone in the pot has. More often than not, this will compensate for making the call of the preflop raise profitable as you now have the chance to win a huge pot if you do indeed hit your set.

General Post-flop Play - This is IMO THE most important aspect of NL holdem. Postflop play is where you will make your money and it is where your hand really starts to develop. As I said before, I do not advocate raising a whole lot in cash games preflop. I will explain why in a short while, so please have patience.

After the flop is when BIG edges in Holdem are acquired. As most everyone knows, Holdem is a game of small pre-flop edges, yet everyone seems to want to play for all their money before they see the flop. In cash games, any flop is a GOOD flop. You want to see as many cheap flops as possible! Make getting to the flop your primary goal when you decide to play a hand.

What to Play in Multiway Pots - Here is the difference between cash and tournament play. In a tournament (online at least) where stacks are small compared to blind sizes, you are a fool to play a lot of junk suited connectors and gap connectors. You simply do not have the money to throw around in which to do this. In cash games however, the flop is your friend. If you are in LP, you can loosen up your starting hand requirements to a variety of “junk” hands. Again, when evaluating what you are going to play, make sure you are considering such things as position, pot odds, hand value post-flop, etc. If you have a lot of opponents in before you, try to take the flop with some suited connectors and rag hands. Hitting these flops fulfills your whole purpose in NL cash, which is to get paid off. The reason it is easy to get paid is because there are so many opponents in the hand which ensures that at least one or two other people hit the flop. Also, post-flop is where you have the bigger edges against your opponents, which decreases the likelihood of getting outdrawn. So in the end, you are getting paid more money with less risk. What more could you ask for?

Big pairs - In multiway post-flop pots, big pairs lose a ton of value. Since there are so many hands out there, the flop is likely to hit someone as we discussed earlier. YOU want to be the one GETTING paid off by big pairs in multi-ways, do not let it be the other way around. If you have KK against 4 opponents and the flop is 10 J 4, you must tread extremely lightly. There are so many draws and possible holdings that either have you beat or can beat you, that you are almost certainly an underdog in the hand percentage wise. Remember, having the best hand pre or eve post-flop is NOT what poker is about. It is about SHOWING DOWN the best hand. Yes of course if you have KK against JJ heads up on the flop and your opponent hits his miracle J on the river, then no, there is nothing you could have done. However, the tone changes drastically the more opponents you add to the mix. If you have KK on that J 10 4 flop (let’s also assume a flush draw) and you get it all in with 3 or 4 other opponents, I would seriously question your play here, even though you may have had the “best” hand at the time. Statistics and edges are the lifeblood of a great NL cash player. Pushing a hand where you are the statistical underdog simply because you “had the best hand” is a LOSING way to play poker.

Low pocket pairs and suited connectors - These hands are the best NL cash hands possible. Hitting a set with KK is totally different from hitting a set with 44. Remember, it is not about having just a great hand. It is about having a great hand THAT GETS PAID OFF. If the flop is K 7 3, QQ is much more likely to fold than if the flop is 4 8 2. Now, the way I like to play these hands (10 10 - 2 2 and suited connectors) is to get in as cheap as possible and play my hand post-flop. If it is raised before me, then there is rarely a time (Except maybe when I have 22 or 33) I will not call with a pocket pair. Suited connectors are a different story as I will from time to time call raises, but only if I know the pot will contain 2 or more opponents.

My Approach - Now earlier, I advocated not raising very much preflop in cash games. Let me explain why I take this approach:

Defining Hands - For one, raising defines your hand. Everything you do in a game says something to your opponents. Especially if I have a hand like 10 10 or 9 9, I will not raise these hands very often. The reason for this is that even if I do flop a set, there is a great chance of scare cards falling on the flop as well. When you flop a set, you do NOT want your hand defined as strong by raising it preflop. Remember, your main goal in NL cash is to get to the flop and GET PAID, so if you have raised preflop, then your opponents may be scared of a K 10 4 flop as opposed to if you had only called preflop. Also, you may thin the field out substantially by raising preflop. When you flop a set, you want as many people in the hand as possible to increase your chances of getting paid off.

Edges - As I explained earlier, edges in Holdem preflop are small. Even if you have pair over pair, you are still 20% to lose the hand. I prefer to punish my opponents after the flop when the edges are much bigger.

Table Image - Raising rarely offers an image to your opponent of “weak”. As a result of this, you may find your sets even getting raised on the flop because you have shown to be “weak” by not raising often. This bodes well for you getting paid off easier.


When to raise - Normally, as I said before, I will only raise the big pairs, A K, and suited connectors (for show). In other words, hands that play very well postflop in heads up pots where thinning the field is crucial to succes with the hand. Anything else I like to limp with, even in MP or LP when no one has raised. If there is one thing I hate, it is flopping a set in a cash game and seeing everyone fold because I scared them off with a raise preflop. If you really think about it, especially with pairs, there is little advantage to raising them preflop. If you miss the flop, there are most likely going to be scare cards out there which leaves you with the chore of being the raiser with middle pair. Very difficult to play. Being a good player includes leaving yourself with the least amount of difficult decisions possible. Also, if you do raise and hit a set, you are repping a big hand from the get go. If the flop is 10 5 2, your opponents may put you on a big pair and fold. If the flop comes K 10 2, your opponent may put you on A K and fold. As far as Im concerned, raising pocket pairs with the exception of big pairs, it pointless. The one advantage I can see to this is getting in a situation where you have that same K 10 2 flop with pocket 10's and your opponent holds a K. The problem with that approach however is that there are so many things that need to fall into place in order to get paid. First, you have to flop your set, then your opponent has to call with a strong K. Then your opponent has to pay you off. Limping with as many people in the pot as possible and hitting a set usually is all the work you have to do. The hand plays itself from there.

Investing - There is one last thing I would like to add and that is the concept of "investing". My mindset when I play cash is that I am investing in hands. This concept pretty much means that I will invest money into pots that can pay off huge dividends. Hands like A K and A Q are really weak IMO. They are not worth the investment for the most part. The hands that I like to invest in the most is small/mid pocket pairs. I will call (as I said before) most raises with these hands in order to flop a set. What this boils down to is that I play very few small pots and focus on big pots. With this approach to the game, you must be prepared to lose some money. Consider this your "investment" money. You are investing in these pocket pairs over and over until you hit that set and bruise A K for all his chips. Trust me, the one huge pot you win with a set will more than pay for the investment money you used to see all those flops.

As always, this is just scratching the surface of NL cash strategy as there are so many intricacies to the game that I am not even sure I could explain quite honestly. I hope that this approach to NL cash helps you in your play and most importantly in your ability to make money. As always, feedback and questions are appreciated/welcome and if there is anything you feel I missed, please let me know.

[HEwong]

i dont know what to say i stopped reading after the first sentence lol its too long .lol

[BrianSwa]

guess that means you never read a poker book?

[BlibbityBlabbity]

I stopped too....who wrote this exactly? I know you got it "from another forum" but was it attributed to anyone?

Poker books tend to have format, structure and cohesiveness that (at least skimming) this does not have much of. Maybe I will get bored and read through it (especially if those without ADHD can read it and tell me if it is any good).

[HEwong]

join the club bro im ADHD TOOO!! lol

[BrianSwa]

I read the entire thing and yes its good, I honestly dont know who its from Im in process of writting back guy that sent it to get link to it.

[melioris]

ok, so I don't play a lot of live cash games. At $25NL tables online I have done well (except recently-2nd kid and crashed computer have put a damper on my game). This seems like good rockish advice for big live cash games. At the micro games online, aggression is king and this doesn't really speak to that.

So maybe I am like the 2nd grader laughing at the advice of the college student, but it doesn't seem relevant for me yet.

[JDMcNugent7]

That is a weird strategy... this guy is crazy tight and passive - and it sounds like all he does is sit around and wait to hit monsters... I can see his strategy actually working if he's at a table where nobody pays attention to him, but it just seems weak and boring to me and there are alot of things i don't agree with.

[melioris]

forgot to mention that I like the idea of investing, but I always think of it as my buyin is the investment and the hands are the opportunities, as opposed to investing in the hands.

Maybe it is just semantics, but I think the difference is tangible.

[BrianSwa]

I didnt really see it that way JD, basicly what I got from it was he only raises preflop with suited connectors and big pairs and AK. Of course he dosent run hands like QT becuase they dont pay off to well. Tight and aggresive is how I see he plays. For someone like me that has a very limited bankroll the way he plays seems very profitable not all big ballers like you.

for someone with a very big bankroll that can take alot more chances but for someone with limited bankroll I think tight/aggresive is way to go. This also really isnt for someone playing 2/4 and 3/6 NL. Also that would be why he raises with suited connectors and when he talks about his table image and the fact that everyone will think he is weak with all his limping.

[jimmym]

Some read Brian. But to be honest nothing any poker player doesnt really know or read before.



Now, when I am talking about postflop play, I am really talking about the playing capability of your hand postflop. When evaluating your hand in any given situation, it is important to evaluate the hand from the perspective of the next step. For instance, if you have A Q preflop, it is important to evaluate the situation postflop. Let’s say you are on the button with A Q and there is a 4x BB raise in front of you as well as 3 calls. Let us assume that the raise was in E/MP (Early/middle position) and the 3 callers are of course in front of you. In my approach to cash games, I would advocate folding the A Q preflop for a couple reasons:

Basic poker player info, I mean A-Q, NOT really a great hand is it.

I could hi-lite and comment on probably the whole article but really I am confused and surprised you found it so helpful, all his points are basic and some very novicey. Any basic poker article on how to play cover most of what he says.

What to Play - OK, we are still on point here with heads up pots. I will define heads up here strictly as a situation where it is only you and one opponent in the hand together. The types of hands you want to play in these situations are as follows:

Any big pair - This is of course common sense (AA - JJ)

Ohh come on.....I mean whats this about?


As always, this is just scratching the surface of NL cash strategy as there are so many intricacies to the game that I am not even sure I could explain quite honestly. I hope that this approach to NL cash helps you in your play and most importantly in your ability to make money. As always, feedback and questions are appreciated/welcome and if there is anything you feel I missed, please let me know.

Well, am afraid I will ask my questions on here, atleast I know there are a few players with experience on here, this guy writes poker like my wife plays...BADLY.

Am not knocking you Brian but the article is poor. IMO

[BrianSwa]

sorry disagree Jimmy but you are welcome to your opinion of course, from talking to his friend he seems to do real well. Yes some of it is basic but from some of the threads I have read in last couple days and some of the HH basics might help some. It was put up if anyone was interested, alot of you may be way beyond this but some arnt.

[JDMcNugent7]

I'm not saying this strategy won't work- although i don't think it will work very well in the higher limits- it probably works pretty well in the lower limits- It's just not my style of poker at all - but seriously if ur playing the lower limits and playing 9 person tables i don't see any reason not to use it if it indeed works.

[BrianSwa]

yea I edited my last post to say it wouldnt work in higher limits probobly, and trust me I wouldnt try to say anything is wrong with your game I have railed you many nights. Id say hi but i got no money in stars and you cant talk . Totally agree though that at your level people would pick off your strategy in like 2 minutes.

[thrash1294]

Yes very passive and basic But a winning strategy for ring games .I apply this method..except for suited connector raises.boring and dull yes but it works.
now Jd may have some strategy and I would like to hear it because he must be doing something right cause he is on fire......

[BrianSwa]

agreed lets hear it JD.

[JDMcNugent7]

I Never sit down with a certain strategy or system... because every situation is different ... you just have to take in all the info. u can from each particular situation and determine what the right play is at that time.

[Zybomb]

this is actually a very interesting article, I especially like the analysis of when to fold AK after hitting an ace... but there are several problems with this 'system'

1- he doesnt address all the money wasted by just calling with 10 10 and then folding when the flop coems Q 8 2, where as if he raised preflop, limited the field to 1 or 2 callers, then made a CB bet, he'd likely have taken the pot down

2- like JD said, any player with some intelligence will realize he is check folding 90% of the flops, thus when he is playing aggressive he shoul get some respect...

3- a lot of things need to happen when u hit a set, if you are to get paid off this monster pot he talks about... just bc u didnt raise doesnt mean the raiser (or other limpers) have hit with this hand enough to stay in against aggression....you can limp flop a set and win nothing more, just like u can raise with one... in fact if u were frequently raising, people would begin to not respect your raises at much, and either start valuing their hands higher or even playing back at you, so you could get MORE action if you raise

4- In a limped pot, the pot is small... anyone who is making big moves at it, obviously is very strong! Otherwise they wouldnt waste their effort on this small pot

[BrianSwa]

just got pm back from guy


It's XxMagicianxX on cardplayer.com... Also, if you go on that site there are some very good articles in the NLHE forum on tournament play by Katelyndad....

Hope it helps...

[Talking Poker]

This explains why 99% of your posts involve begging for money or freerolls.

GL with that.

[Talking Poker]

I look forward to reading this when I have some more time

But after glancing through the replies, I'm guessing it's a weak/tight survival strategy... which is fine for cashing, but if you want to start WINNING tourneys, you need to open up your game and crank up the aggression.

[jimmym]

Dont take what i said as an insult to you Brian, and no way am I beyond what he says, I think thats what my problem with what he writes is that I know what he is on about and take it that we all do, but re-reading the article I now see its well wrote albeit IMO by someone describing there way of playing which will not suit all.

Magician, is no slouch when it comes to playing and I know he plays on PS and is an agressive player who builds early on in his tournies, but my notes say he struggles to finish a bit like me he plays just for final tbl $.

But as your friend said he does do well.

[BrianSwa]

you dont need to tip toe around me Jimmy im not made of glass. Say what you feel if you think its a insult I dont care.

as for what you said I agree with alot, expecially where you said what works for some dosent work for all.

[BrianSwa]

this is cash game stuff not tourneys sir just so you know when you start reading.

[jimmym]

OK, no more tip toeing....

And if you were made of glass this is how you would look.