for no one in particular...

bdawg31 · #1 05-04-05, 11:46 AM

GeoffM · #2 05-04-05, 11:52 AM

Ok, well, Negreanu has started getting a lot of tv time, and here is the gist of what he said about calling poker gambling.

If you are going to call poker gambling, you might as well call investments gambling, the stock market, playing the lottery, driving your car. Poker is not gambling, at least not to the majority on this site I would imagine. Gambling, in the long run, is losing. I have not lost, therefore I look at poker as a sound investment and a good return on capital.

That's just my 2 cents though.

Talking Poker · #3 05-04-05, 12:28 PM

Sounds like SOMEONE I know, but I can't quite put a finger on who it is........ Hmmmmmm......

BlibbityBlabbity · #4 05-04-05, 12:32 PM

Can someone who read this whole thing summarize.....PLEASE!!!!

Maybe I just have adult ADHD but I started daydreaming about 1 paragrah in, scrolled down, and said no f'ing way...

bdawg31 · #5 05-04-05, 12:41 PM

(for the record I do call playing the lottery gambling :-)

Yes, i agree with you. I posted this here more for entertainment value than anything else. Of course, its important to keep in mind that not everyone thinks of poker in the manner that you do. Some people treat it as 'gambling'. They dont treat it as a game of skill - they treat it as a game of luck.

Look at Blackjack - i think most people consider that a form of 'gambling' - but if you ask professional card counters that can make it so they have an edge over the house - then they would use the same kinds of arguements that Danny N. uses to say its not gambling.

I think its a matter of semantics. One could say that when you put money at risk - you are 'gambling'. Even if you have a 90% edge - you are still 'gambling' the amount you are putting at risk - you just have an advantage.

I think poker players like to stress that poker is not 'gambling' because they want to make sure that people understand that they are skilled and are not just relying on luck (i would think it would be more profitable to let people continue to consider that its mostly luck, but that is just me).

Regardless - i believe a consistently losing poker player can have the same kind of addiction to playing poker that a gambler can have to playing blackjack or routlette or betting on football games. It doesnt matter if you use the term 'gambling' to describe playing poker.

bdawg31 · #6 05-04-05, 12:42 PM

I didnt read it all either!

Kurn · #7 05-04-05, 01:11 PM

I agree. The best poker theorist there is - Sklansky - stresses that poker *is* gambling. To say this doesn't mean that poker is pure luck, we all know it isn't. It is, in fact, one of the most perfect blends of skill and luck (also known as short-term variance)that exists.

There is a skill to being a good gambler. The skill in recognizing when the odds offered on a given wager exceed the probability that the wager will be successful, and the awareness to recognize when your opponents are missing the point.

My experience has always been that the people who become the most frustrated with short-term variance in poker are the "poker isn't gambling" crowd.

I'm sure Daniel understands all of this implicitly. The fact that he doesn't put money at risk in games where he doesn't have an edge doesn't mean he isn't a gambler, it just means he's a smart gambler.

PShabi · #8 05-04-05, 01:37 PM

Ummmmmmm, it's gambling.

Talking Poker · #9 05-04-05, 01:56 PM

I get the feeling everyone here is mising the intended BrianSwa joke. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm reading into it, but I thought it was pretty clear. The article is about problem gamblers, not whether or not poker is gambling.

BrianSwa · #10 05-04-05, 02:19 PM

yea I totally get it and think its getting pretty old. I mean if it gets you off beating a dead horse go right ahead but after a month of it thought you might get sick of mentioning it.

PShabi · #11 05-04-05, 02:34 PM

We're responding to Geoff's post summarizing Negreneau's beliefs on the "poker=gambling?" dilemma.

bdawg31 · #12 05-04-05, 02:49 PM

I probably came across as being sarcastic - but i seriously wasnt directing the post to anyone in particular (Brian or anyone else for that matter) - that was why i put that in the initial title. I guess it came across wrong.

I just put it out there because i know a lot of people spend a lot of time gambling/playing poker and thought it might strike up some convesation - that and i was taking a break from work.

I am enjoying the gambling vs. non-gambling debate much more than the 'brian cant stop gambling' strings anyway.

Sorry Brian - i honestly wasnt trying to pile on you.

BrianSwa · #13 05-04-05, 02:53 PM

I didnt think you where, my comments where directed towards someone else...or group of someone else's. I expected the comments for a little while but a month after the fact its getting kinda annoying.

I know your post was innocent but soon as I clicked the link I expected a certain number of people to jump all over it. And as the admin and moderator of a new forum I wouldnt expect them to want to drive members away from there forum but guess I was wrong there also.

Now I can take a joke for a little while but this is getting kinda stupid after awhile.

Talking Poker · #14 05-04-05, 03:19 PM

I don't think your gambling problem is a joke at all. Maybe you should reread this thread sometime:

You seem to have completely forgotten what happened, and I fear for you and your family that you are headed back there again. If you were some single guy with no responsibilities, maybe I could have the attitude where I enjoy watching the train wreck, but you've got a family to take care of, including a sick kid.

I truly hope you are playing again for recreation only, and that you mean it when you say you'll never play above the microlimits again... It's just hard to believe that. Kinda like watching an alcoholic try to drink socially.

GeoffM · #15 05-04-05, 03:20 PM

I agree, just as bad as alcoholism.

BrianSwa · #16 05-04-05, 04:28 PM

here is a suggestion take all the time you spend worrying about me and my family and put it towards making your forum better. Not trying to be a jerk but god dude get a recreation here. I said in my other thread what I plan on doing and thats what I plan on doing. Just because I screwed up once I have to explain it over and over to you, saying the exact same thing and you posting the exact same thing. Some reason you just arnt getting it, its just not setting in or something. Got a mental block or something? Again not trying to be a dick but find someone else to save this week and leave me alone. Or continue to harass me either way I wont have to hear about it much longer.

No I havent forgotten what happen a month ago, I know I played way above my current bankroll and I know I blew it. I plan on playing 2/4 eventully because I want to and my family dosent mind that. Of course this wont be for awhile becuase my family needs most of my attention right now. Will never post anything about it on here because frankly dont care if you agree with what I do or not. The only reason I posted some of my hands was because certain users I have much respect for as players and wanted to see what they thought of my play. Of course I also knew I would get those certain ones that had absolutley nothing important to say other then " god he is playing poker again" or "here comes the trainwreck" or whatever the smartass comments where that certain users posted. Guess I have to live with the pointless comments and weed through them to get to the constructive critisizm.

omahilo · #17 05-04-05, 04:50 PM

Brian, why dont you just stop replying to threads that are making fun of you.

Just go about doing what you plan on doing and hope to prove everyone wrong and not worry what other people have to say.

BrianSwa · #18 05-04-05, 04:55 PM

Because it dosent matter what thread im in someone has some smartass comment in everyone I respond in. I did ignore them for awhile but if you look back every single thread I have started or responded to had a comment. It just gets really annoying after awhile, but yes I will stop talking about it after this post.

Talking Poker · #19 05-04-05, 05:37 PM

Damn. Did someone forget to take their medication today?

Will do. Man, this place is going to be AWESOME in no time with the extra 45 seconds I spend on it every week!

Get a recreation? LOL...

^---I can't help but find this ironic.

My apologies. I will gladly leave you alone about the problems of your past. I see now that you are fully recovered, and I'm happy for you. Let me know if you want to play some poker sometime - I'd love to. Any game, any limit... A good time will be had by all!

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but are you threatening to leave again? If so, for the seventh time (I'm just guessing - I have trouble with big numbers), BYE. <--- Translation: See you tomorrow.

I'll believe it when I see it. And as I've said to you dozens of times before, GL.

BrianSwa · #20 05-04-05, 05:47 PM

too many stupid things to answer so not gonna waste my 45 seconds on it, as for playing you have no desire to. Not worried about you or anything just dont really like your attitude. Tend to like to play with people for enjoyment and playing with you would be hell. My game with pshabi and co. last week was great...great bunch of guys having fun.

never said I was leaving just saying gonna stop talking to people that obviously are jerk's. But you will see alot less of me since can't stand your comments.

Just one last thing...how come when I make a aggresive comments it means I need to be medicated but you and some others can just rip into people and its funny? This I find really, really ironic. Keep up the good work here man the way you treat people your right it will be awsome. I know the answer to this will be but I was so nice to you in the past, yep you where and then after that was over treated me like a ass. Im sure you find someone else to alienate eventully, figure you have to, to make yourself look so good.

Talking Poker · #21 05-04-05, 05:53 PM

Sounds great. I'm sure I speak for about 90% of the people here (the other 10% don't know you well enough - they might not even know that you were actually banned from the forum before) when I say I'm looking forward to it.

Funny how just the other day you posted saying how much fun it was playing with me and Chip those couple of times we played in the past. I guess his friendliness made up for my jerkiness. Go figure.

BrianSwa · #22 05-04-05, 05:56 PM

yes that was when you where being cool and yes it was fun, I never said it wasnt. Just said now it would be hell, read before you speak.

Talking Poker · #23 05-04-05, 07:13 PM

It would be no different than before... but whatever. Throw your little tantrum.

2Tone · #24 05-04-05, 08:09 PM

I'll cop to being guilty of #1, though I would prefer it read "Preoccupation with past, present, and future gambling experiences and with ways to obtain money FROM gambling" rather than "and with ways to obtain money FOR gambling." I'm pretty clear on most of the others, so I guess I'm not pathological yet.

Talking Poker · #25 05-04-05, 10:01 PM

I didn't realize you edited your post to add all of this until now.

I treat people here the way they ask to be treated. I try to be nice to everyone. I didn't treat you like an ass until you started acting like and ass, and even then I was a lot nicer than I should have been. Apparently what you are upset about is when I tried looking out for you and your little gambling problem. Well, you've made it very clear to me that you are fine and don't have a problem, so I'll drop it. Here's hoping it doesn't cost you your family this time around.