Frustration...

[Talking Poker]

I'm looking forward to the WSOP - I really am. But I have to tell you, I'm just not looking at online poker the same as I used to any more. It's been a while since I've really enjoyed playing. I've been on a downswing for a while, but it hasn't been THAT bad or anything (well, not recently - it was in April). I'm basically about even for the last two months.

I dunno. I'm honestly tempted to cash out and enjoy what's left of my online bankroll (still 5 figures, but significantly less than it was about 4 months ago). But I'm afraid I might regret that if I do.

I feel like I'm not ready to admit defeat yet, and I feel like if I look at my play objectively, I shouldn't NEED to admit defeat. I'm easily a winning player overall and I think I will continue to be in the long run, but this short run stuff just sucks after a while. I mean, bad sessions and weeks are one thing, but bad months can really wear on you.

Anyone have any advice?

If I was to give myself advice, I'd tell myself to cash out all but some set amount of money. I don't know how much - maybe $2000-$5000. And then start fresh. Move WAY down in stakes (this is something else I have trouble with... knowing that I am (was) capable of beating the $5/10 NL game and killing the $3/6 game, it's going to be mighty tough for me to move down and start over at $1/2. But that's probably what I should do.

Like I said, it just hasn't been fun for me recently.

Here's hoping a monster cash at the WSOP changes my attitude, but if it doesn't, what do you guys think I should do?

[omahilo]

I would say to cash out some and buy yourself something nice then start fresh at 1/2 NL and work your way back up, maybe you will feel good about playing online again.

From the sounds of it, it sounds like you own everything that you need so this might not be best. You could alway plan a trip for yourself that you will pay for out of your poker winnings (like sjay).

[thrash1294]

That sounds like a solid plan move down and try to have fun again.

[drewjax]

I would suggest playing something completely different. I found this helped me in the past. I got really sick of playing, and I played alot of O8 for a few weeks. Try that, maybe play some low limit razz for a couple weeks. Maybe some pineapple on UB. Move way down in stakes, and play LOTS of hands. Play uber aggressive and just try to be a monster post flop etc. Play some limit poker.
Anything but what you have been playing.
I think it may help your game. It helped mine for whatever reason.

Of course I have no experience playing at the levels you have played, so take it for what its worth.

GL

pwn the series


Edit: I remember DN suggesting something like this in one of his blogs. He suggested move way way down in stakes, whatever is real small for you. And play EVERY HAND. Then try to play your best on the turn and river. Really try to read your opp. betting patterns etc. He said this will really be a help to alot of players. Take it from him, not me. He is Goot.

[JDMcNugent7]

i think im on the longest bad streak of my life.
stake me

[Kurn]

Drop down in limits and play a completely different game. Say 3/6 to 5/10 HORSE, or Stud for a while. It'll clean out the cobwebs in your poker mind and allow you to go back to your best game in a few months with a clear head. After spending a good deal of time playing a variety of games, I find I'm making better decisions at my best game, limit HE.

After playing a variety of different games for a while, everything in your best game seems clearer.

[Invigilator]

I can't pretend that I "understand" your situation b/c I am just not there. However, I strongly agree with Kurn and Drew. If I feel like I am going numb in the slightest bit I play something else at a very low level (Stud, OH, O8, Razz and HORSE). Being exposed to other dimensions of poker does shake things up.

Also, if you can float it, use some of that cash for a trip or other "I always wanted to do that" experience. Why not travel and visit your favourite TP members and try to beat their home games?

[Zybomb]

Final Table 2-3 Events at the Series this year and quit your bitchin

Seriously going from

or

to

is simply unacceptable!

Didn't you used to be a Limit Cash Game player and NL Tournament player? Maybe going back to the limit grind will be a good change of pace -- as well as playing in a few of the Sunday tournies or something to that effect

OR do what I do - get some Live playing in. It's social, entertaining and fun, not to mention filled with donkeys.... and it's a different type of game

[2Tone]

Hmm. Some good advice so far. I don’t know about dropping way down in limits online though. If you have the discipline it could be good for your game, but I for one would get bored, and play too many hands. And running bad at lower limits, while not as costly to the roll, would not be good for the confidence.

Depending on how things are going in your other endeavors, I love the idea of cashing out a good chunk of the roll and using it for a vacation/change of scenery. Find out how Biloxi/N.O are recovering from Katrina, and sample the live game there. Cruise down Sunset Strip/Venice Beach, then go see if the stories of No-Fold-Em Hold Em at the Bike and Commerce are true. Better yet, hit the pot limit games – and museums -- of Amsterdam and Paris. Or hell, come up here to Seattle, and be the best player ever to sit in our local 3/6 limit donkeyfest.

Alternatively, you could just … stop. One of the great things about poker is there’s always another hand being dealt. So if you don’t play a single hand for a month, or a season, or however long it takes til you feel you want to be dealt in and play your best game, that’s fine. It’ll be there waiting for you.

Of course, all of this advise if meant to be followed AFTER your huge cash in a series event.

[drewjax]

anyone feel like nutbarring some .02NL on stars to let some steam off.

must play at least 80% of hands.......its goot for the soul

[Talking Poker]

Thanks everyone. This is a good thread with a lot of good ideas.

[New Guy]

Dude your like a major league pitcher that got injured and needs to be assigned to aaa to rehab his game.No worries.Get some innings in and when your ready to move up youll be ready.Be humble!!!!

[Reel Deal]

I agree w/a lot of what Zy said... for you TP I think:

Tournaments > Cash Games

[bdawg31]

I feel your pain - times about a year. I do remember back when i used to be able to win, that when i had a tough time at the Hold Em grind - i would switch to other games as suggested - usually LO8 or whatever. And i could play those games at lower stakes because since they were new, i still enjoyed them.

I did manage to cash out a fair amount of money before my total melt down. I have mixed feelings about that.

The good - i got my basement refinished, i got to take my wife to australia, kids to bahamas, paid of some bills, and buy a bunch of odds and ends before i pissed it all away (even though i pissed a fair amount away).

The bad - i am basically online broke now. And I wonder if i had just kept my money online and kept grinding if i could have played out of it. But, i think i would need committed if i had lost all of that.

Moving down semi-long-term is tough to do, believe me. That is part of the problem I am having now.

So, some advice coming from someone who won for over 3 years and now cant beat a $25 PLO game or the $4 180 MTTs.

I would suggest a little of all the advice given. Cash some out and treat yourself - if you continue to meltdown - you will at least have that to show for it.

I also like the idea of trying a new game at a low level. Since its a new game, I think you wont mind the lower stakes. And adding a new game to your arsenal is always a good thing.

I like the live-game idea as well. Like Zy said - the game is different, and i believe live is now softer than online play (plus you have had a lot of live success in both tournies and cash). Even as i have been getting my ass handed to me night after night over the last year or so, i have done well playing chump-stakes live on my few AC trips.

[melioris]

I hear you TP, and I think my situation is relevant to yours. I wrote up a big long thing and was going to post a new thread, but I will paraphrase here instead.

A couple of days after this , something came up and the family needed some money. At the time it made sense to pull the money from my online bankroll, so I pulled everything out (mid 4 figures). I thought about rebuilding with May's RB payment, and dicked around with that idea for a couple of days. But the joy was gone (which made it an easy decision to pull the BR in the first place), it was all about the money and that is when I knew it was time to move on. How? Well, for a lot of reasons. First, and most important, is time. Life is short and getting shorter everyday. There are a lot of things I want to do that I am not getting done right now. Each time I fire up windows and play poker, I am not doing those things. Then there is the fact I am not that good. Then there is the fact that my dayjobs (lab and kids) are taking up more and more time and I can't really let poker infringe on either. The list goes on and on….

Poker has been good for me and I have learned a lot about myself and human nature through online poker, but if I think about it, most of the things in my life that bring me happiness are not currently limited by money. So why should I spend my time pursuing money (poker) when the only correlation that money (and the pursuit of it) may have with my happiness is negative? It doesn’t add up. So with the chump change I still have online I mess around with HU SNGs every now and again and since I am not playing with proper BR management I will burn through that and be done for a while.

As I get older it becomes more and more clear to me that I am incredibly lucky to be able to, more or less, choose how I spend my time. Look around the world, not a lot of people came say that. So I try not to do anything that I do not truly enjoy. I still hack away at home games and such, and maybe we will need the money or I will re-discover my joy of online poker, but until then it isn't in me anymore.

[Talking Poker]

I'm glad you posted this, because it made me go reread his post. 90% of that wasn't there the first time I read it (damn you, post editors!), so I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.

I used to feel way more comfortable in tourneys than in cash games, but I've sucked in (online) tourneys lately. Things go well and then the inevitable beat (or the occasional really bad read and bad play, like I made last night) nad *poof* it's over. I still think Cash Games (NL, especially) are where the money is at. Maybe it's just more difficult for me since I started at a limit cash and NL tourney player, as you said. I dunno.

This Vegas trip will be a nice break for me. I may play some HU online while I'm gone, but that's probably going to be it.

[Talking Poker]

Wow.... This comes as kind of a shock to me. Believe me though, I hear ya. There have been times where I thought it would be great to average $10k a month playing online poker. But to be perfectly honest with you, if you don't enjoy doing that - or worse yet, if you are hating it - or worse yet, if you are hating it AND NOT DOING IT (as in, "losing") - it loses it's appeal very quickly.

I'm still very much undecided, but I think the timing of this Vegas trip is just right for me. I think things will be much more clear to me when I return.

One last thing though melioris - you are a much better poker player than you are giving yourself credit for. I think you are one of the most underrated players on this site, right up there with meanness. I say that based on a number of things, but primarily the posts you both have made in the Hand Discussion section. I can tell when someone "gets it" and when they don't... and you two (and others, but especially you two) both have the foundations needed to become very good players, if that's what you want.

GL to you. I hope you don't feel the need to leave us just because you are leaving online poker. Come on now - we don't take up that much of your time.

[melioris]

Don't worry, you can't rid of me that easy, just because I suck at poker and am not playing much doesn't mean I won't post like a fool around here. If that is good enough for RD it can't be that bad . I kid, I kid.

Thanks for your words TP. WSOP sounds great, kick some ass and work out in your head what you need to work out.

Also, I don't know what is going on in your personal life and I don't really what to pry, but if it is an issue, go out and get laid. Tends to provide clarity.

[Talking Poker]

Nah... personal life is fine. But thanks for the tip.

[Reel Deal]

Ass Face, we are happy to welcome you and your fancy Liberace lab coat to the Dark Side. BTW, what is this "get laid" you speak of?

[omahilo]

Ask boobie, he would know.

[melioris]

Clearly I was trying to sounds cool there.

I have read about it and can email you some pictures I found on the interweb that can explain better than words, although whenever I look at them I feel a little funny in my pants. A guy in the lab next door claims to have a girlfriend in the Niagara Falls area, but I am not sure if I believe him.

[Reel Deal]

[Mr Eaton]

I'm a small time player, but I got to where I was playing everyday online and the weekends at different venues. I was floating above even most of the time and learning alot. But in March I decide to take a week break, well that week turn in to five. When I started back up I was fresh and started to see things in a different light. You know how you hear something from your wife a 1000 times tends to it looses meaning, but hearing that same advice from someone else opens your eyes. Thats what a break did for me, if that makes sense to anyone else.

[Invigilator]

Welcome aboard Mr. E