Tournament Situation -- Ethics

[Zybomb]

Played in a small buy in 10 player live tournament last night... a slight situation came up, I wanna see how people would of dealt with it.

blinds are up to 300/600. I am in the BB with 9c7c and I have roughly 5800 in my stack after posting. It is folded to the SB who makes it 1500 total to go, I tell him I'll give him action and make the call. The flop comes 3c 8h 9s. He checks to me. I announce a bet of 2000 and throw it in. He says call and turns over pocket Aces. He actually had 2400 in chips, so after the confusion/maylay occurs, Im just like whatever, I get to see the turn card bc u said call... then i assume u move all in on the turn. Thats agreed. My cards are face down but they are on the table. The turn comes Ac. Everyones like oooh your drawing dead. With everyone saying this, I didn't even realize that I picked up a club draw... the dealer says u dont call the extra 400 right....i just kind of laugh and shake my head (in disbelief not saying no) there is a pause then the dealer deals the river which is a club which gives me the winning flush. I STILL don't realize i have the flush. The AA player says Im good right? I nod my head, while looking at the board....I havent thrown my cards in the muck, or called the turn all in technically either, but i didnt say fold. As he is collecting the pot, I realize I just made a winning flush.

Do you say anything here, or is it simply too much trouble (didnt technically call the turn bet, although the person dealing didnt really wait for me to answer, nodded at the player when he asked if his aces are good even though i didnt muck)

[Windbreaker]

This is pretty confusing - a few things of note:

A) Some people would consider the AA hand dead once he exposed his cards before the hand is played out. Whenever you expose your hand to the table it's technically a dead hand.

B) If you guys don't consider it a dead hand. Then the turn play makes no sense. You basically agreed that he's going all in for his last 400 blind on the turn. At this point it's on you to either call that bet or fold. The action is on you. There should be no other action until you make your decision.

C) If you had 'called' the turn bet then your hand should be turned over and exposed at that time. The cards speak for themselves afterwards.

D) If you folded the turn, the hand is over. Why is the dealer rabbit hunting?

E) If the player has been deemed the winner of the hand, then he should be faced with a penalty. Like sitting out for 10 minutes - because of his mistake.

To me, the hand should be dead the moment he turns over Aces. I understand it's not his intention, however, it was his error, and he should live with it. However, if you agreed to the call and all in bet on the turn, then I think you folded. It doesn't sound as if you put any more money into the pot. The dealer has no business asking you if you fold. The dealer made far too many mistakes in my opinion in this hand.

If this was a home game or a game you didn't really cared too much about...then probably let it slide and move on.

[Talking Poker]

Another fine mess you've gotten yourself into! What is with your home game???

There were a number of errors here, but the blame mostly lies on the dealer, IMO. There are places that do indeed muck exposed hands when there is still action left, but I personally find that stupid in Heads Up situations, and I'm glad most places don't do that. If you are thinking about making a big call after I've gone all in (or if I am thinking about making a big call after YOU have gone all in), I WANT to be able to show you a card and mess with your head or get a read off of you, as the case may be. Fortunately, most places allow this. At the WSOP, you get a 10 minute penalty for it, but your hand is not killed.

It sounds to me like you guys handled the flop correctly. The true error came on the turn. The action was still on you when the dealer went ahead and dealt the river card. He shouldn't have done that without you either calling the 400 or folding your hand. You have to act. He apparently thought your nod equalled saying the word "fold" but I don't believe that it did. You either need to say "Fold" or you need to muck your hand.

So................ what should have been done? Well, the river card was dealt prematurely. The action should be back on you to decided if you are going to call the 400 or not. If you decidd to fold, so be it. The hand is over. If you decide to call, the burn card stays on the board, but the river card is picked up and shuffled back into the remainder of the deck. Then a new river card is dealt and we see who wins the hand.

I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure that's the correct way to handle that mess.

[Zybomb]

I was actually playing in a home game of sorts, but different than my normal one. It was me and 4 other players that I usually play with, and 5 other players, players that we know and have occassionally played with, but arent involved in our typical games.... further adding to the problem (it was people i knew but didnt KNOW if u know what im saying)

So after all the obvious mistakes that were made -- once he is collecting his chips, even though my hand was never officially mucked and i never said fold or called the extra 400 necessary to proceed, do u guys say anything?

Once I realized I had the winner I decided it was just going to be too much of a hassle (and it was only a $40 buy in tournament so it wasnt a huge deal) and didnt say anything

[Quint]

I agree with TP, and you guys need to slow down. Certainly if you had been allowed to assess the situation after the turn card hit the table you would have called the 400 even with just a flush draw. Therefore, I would have laid claim to the pot and if they want to shuffle the prematurely played river card, so be it.