The Big 2

[ashmc2]

The 2 big PP’s. What do you think is the way to get the most value from this hand.
Slow playing seemed to only get me in get me out drawn in the past. About half or a little less I lost holding out on my strength – even just till the flop.

Now I bet about 4 times the BB to get all the lucky limpers out of my way. But about ¼ or more of the time everyone drops. If I’m in LP and there are 3 or less limpers I only bet about 2 times BB, as not scare off the potential $.

I don’t know, I just don’t feel I’m getting my money’s worth out of these hands. I see them in the hole and get all warm inside only to make min.

I just seem to make more on my LP or blind suited-con or suited one-gappers than the big 2.

Thoughts please.

[johnp158]

I highly doubt it. Have you ever used pokertracker? I raise 4xBB plus 1 for every limper with AA and KK, and these 2 hands are my biggest moneymakers over 30,000 NL hands. If you're making more with suited connectors or 1-gappers, you're playing AA and KK wrong. No question. Or your sample is too small. Don't make the min-raise with these hands. You're only asking to get drawn out on. Obviously everything is situational, but I have followed these guidlines in almost every situation and it has worked out very well for me.

Just raise it like you should and if you just pick up the blinds, know that you played it right and that next time you might make a bunch of money.

[ashmc2]

thanks John

any one else?

__________
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but convenience is the whore.

[Zybomb]

Don't slowplay (except on certain occassions) don't mini raise either.

Try this, raise with these pairs THE SAME WAY you'd raise with AQs 88 AKo or whatever else. That way your hand stays hidden and you don't say hey guys I have AA/KK, I raise.

[ashmc2]

i'm sorry to say, but i don't raise with any of those hands. I'm tight passive.
i'm one of those nerds that sit around playing tight and waiting for the blind monsters. i also don't buy in for max. ex: $10 at .1/.25 table. yet at .05/.1 tab i do buy in for $10. i guess i have a confidence issue.

_________
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but convenience is the whore.

[ashmc2]

this is a habit you must break me of.

the more i read this forum, the more i learn and grow.

i'm reading Chinese style (backwards,) and am currently back well into 2004.

[Zybomb]

this is a horrible idea...well both of them are.

By only raising with AA KK QQ (monsters) you give your hand away, and that is why u get limited or no action....unless it's unwarrented

By buying in for less than the max (unless the table avg is lower than the max buy in) you are potentially costing yourself big money if you wind up doubling up.

[ashmc2]

i know this Z, but i can't push myself to put $25 on the table. i think i'm afraid of making a bad decision and lossing it. scared $. i know your going to say move down to the .05/.1 tables until my bankroll can handle it. but i'm hardheaded and i'm making $ at .10/.25. your right though, i've had the nuts and allin action from to guys with over $25 at table. i made $20 on the hand instead of $50, and the biggest pot of my online career. yes that is a tear coming down my cheek. lol

__________
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but convenience is the whore.

[eejit101]

You need to get the sacredness out of your head. if you play the way you are doing, and are learning from the expert NL players at this forum (Zy, JD e.t.c) then you wont blow your bankroll. You will lose hands, eveyrone does, but playing the odds and buying in for the correct amount helps alot. I bought into a 3/6 yesterday with $250 instead of $600, first hand i end up all in with AA vs KK. If id have bought in for $600, id have $1209 in my face, but only $509 because i didnt do it. The guy that put me all in had ver $2k in his stack. It was the only free table and i made the mistake of not putting $600 in incase he was in anyway cheating sounds stupid yes, but id have 3 pints, but lets not get caught up on the idea of cheating again.

Buy in for the max.
Always raise 3x BB with AA/KK/Aksuited, and add 1xBB for every limper.
You will lose with AA 74% of the time heads up, but over time this 24% over the 50/50 shot will amount to loads and loads of money.
Dont be a pussy!!! if you can play, and win like you are doing, then why minimize your potential earnings?

[johnp158]

What are you talking about? First, there are definitely some hands you should add to that raising list, depending on position. I do 4x BB +limpers but that's a smaller detail. You will lose 74% of the time? Huh? Did you mean to say 24? Either way, no. No. First, there's no way you can put a percentage on something like that. It's all in how you play it. Second, your number should be way high. Looking at my stats, I win 91.23% of the time with AA and 85.94% with KK. Because I play it strong (this is NL). Usually this means a preflop raise and a bet on the flop. Sometimes, it means an all-in vs. KK or QQ, and it's easy money. Either way, you should be playing these hands in a way that wins much and often. Which is the way that has been described above.

I don't disagree with much of what eejit said except for the dubious statistics. And ditto on the table. Buy in for the max wherever you're comfortable putting up the max. Don't play for 25 until your bankroll and psyche can handle it. Until then, it's probably best to stick to the $10 tables. If a good argument can be made for you buying in $10 to a 25NL table, though, I'm open to hearing it.

[ashmc2]

This is my reasoning for not max buying. (Other than being a pussy)

I made a goodly portion of my bankroll up till a couple of months ago with this strategy. I know it is flawed, but it worked for me. (Because of the confidence issue. Remember?)

I started on the penny tabs with .50. Then I moved up slowly. As I stated before I only play NL. I would buy in at .05/.1 tab with $2 to $4 or $25 with $10. I would play tight. I would play in a hand and get all my $ in before the turn, with the best hand most of the time. I would get the call quite often with 2nd pr, draws, and shit-kickers, because I was such a short stack. They weren’t afraid the of my baby stack. I would double-up, usually within 10 to 30 min. Then before they noticed how tight I was playing I would leave and start all over again at a new unsuspecting table. (I give a snicker as I twirl my mustache) I would play 3 tabs at a time while doing this. This was my bread and butter for a year while I gained experience through sheer amounts of hands.

But I think I now have the experience to hop out of the nest and try a more straightforward technique and stop surreptitiously pick-pocketing the tards.

I'm ready to give out-thinking my opponents a shot.

[Reel Deal]

And you play where?

[GTDawg]

I kinda started like you are talking about. Granted, I bought in for more and didn't start playing the 1/2 cent tables....but I understand the super-tight passive mentality you have/had. I've been blasted for it before.

However, the last few weeks/since maybe beginning Februrary or so...I've read a ton of this website and I've read a ton of the NL posts from people on here and becoming aggressive (in the right situations) causes a huge jump in positive results.

Only raising with the top 3-5 hands for Hold Em is like putting a "HEY I'M SUPER TIGHT" billboard above your head.

No, you're not going to go out raising everything, but there are times when it is warranted. And, you're going to have to change the style unless you want to keep changing tables every 30 minutes for the rest of your poker career.

Keep reading and reading and playing and asking advice and you can get it going in the right direction.

[Talking Poker]

This is a fantastic strategy.... for going broke.

Seriously, this is a losing strategy that you need to break yourself of ASAP.

Passive = bad.
Less than max buy in = bad.

Move down in limits until you are comfortable playing properly.

[ashmc2]

Funny Reel Deal.

GT thanks. Good pep talk. Your post makes me feel a little less like a punk.
___________
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but convenience is the whore.

[ashmc2]

TP - frank as ever. Thank you, I agree. I think i have seen the light. Or my balls have finally dropped. One of the 2 or maybe both. lol

[eejit101]

Sorry, wasnt being clear enough.

1. the raising with AA/KK/AK suited was meant to be under the gun, your not "meant" to raise with anything else frm there.

2. I meant AA wions 74% of the time all in preflop against a random hand. According to the statistics in my face anyways.