Party Poker Steps SINGLE Table style

[Penguinfan]

I just started to notice these yesterday, still probably a horrible way to invest your money, but the allure of a nice payoff is still hard to ignore. I think it was Glenn Frye who sang "Smugglers Blues" and said "it's the lure of easy money, it has a very strong appeal". After watching and playing in one of these games (which I said I would not do, sigh) I thought I would look into the trade off of this versus regular games. First of all, if you play in single table satellites to win seats at bigger games, this may actually be for you, now hear me out before you start screaming about -EV. By the time you actually get to the payout it will be like playing in a (roughly) 1000 player tournament where only the top 4 get paid, in this case $4500, $2500, $1800, $1200, however like I said you are used to playing in this type of setup keep in mind you are only facing 9 other players at once and every time you hit a new set of ten players you are on an even playing field chip wise at least when the new round starts. I think this absolutly benefits the above average SNG player because IMHO if you play tight and let the morons snuff each other out you can wait for good hands and win enough chips to get to heads up and then let the chips fall where they may. This tournament structure helps that style of play because while I wait for good hand to advance to the next level some jackass who is just shoving chips around and getting lucky playing A3s isn't piling up some huge chip advantage AND the blinds don't get so high like in a MTT that your hands get tied, I really think you can just play good solid poker throughout and find yourself at a $1000 SNG before you know it. The drawback is that you have to get to the top TWO spots instead of 3 to advance in steps 1 and 2, you just need top 3 in step 3 and step 4 should be a walk in the park as the top 4 advance to the money game and now you are in a money game with 10 people and FOUR spots get paid.
Perhaps I am the ultimate sucker that Party is looking for, but I find this a much better opportunity than the 2-table version.
Probably still better off just playing 2/4 and making a few bucks an hour, but this is fun and unless I am missing something isn't as bad as it's older brother.
Thoughts?????

[BrianSwa]

I think thats a very good way of looking at it, personally id rather just buy into a MTT becuase of the fact that everyones made that only the top 4 get paid and its like playing 5 sit and go's. Id like to hear chipfish opinion since he is the one that made it through all 4 steps.....chip?

[ChipFish]

Everyone is missing the obvious here....
With the Step tourneys the hardest part is level 1.
What you ask? How can that be?
Simple.
You have to finish top 4.
It's not that hard.
Honestly, if you can't finish top 4 in a 2 table tourney at least once out of 2 or 3 tries... Well, then you can cry about -EV and how evil PartyPoker is because there are like a million people in this tournament.
Fact of the matter is there are 19 other people in this tournament.
That's it.
You have to finish 4rth. That means you have to beat only 15 people.
Of those 15 I'd say 12 of them are "dead money".

It cost me $11 to make Step 5.
Let's assume that I was able to make it all the way to Step 5 only 10 times out of 100.
That's a fair assumption for a stronger player is it not?
Of course it is.

Now let's look for this "-EV" that everyone is whining about.
Nope. Can't find any.... In fact it seems to work out to "+EV".

Using the above example... I make Step 5 10% of the time.
So out of 100 Attempts (100 x $11 = $1100) I would have to make Step 5 2 times to have positive EV.
That's right. I am entered into a $1,000 tournament for a discount.
That equals p-o-s-i-t-i-v-e e-v.

So, no matter how you try to skew the results, by claiming that Party is charging $3000 rake or whatever number the naysayers came up with, they in fact did not charge me a thing. They actually gave me a discount.
And no, I did not have to face 1000 opponents.
I in fact only faced 20 at a time. Less when you realize that these are "SATELITES" meaning, you do NOT have to win to move on.
What is the best strategy for satelites? Figure out roughly how many chips you will need to be in the final 4 (or whatever number wins the satelite) and once you achieve that number... yes wait for it.... Fold everything.

In summary, if someone is going to say "Hey ChipFish!, Do you want to enter a $1,000 tournament for less than $1,000?" ChipFish will respond with a yes.
This -EV nonsense is mathematical drivel and does assume logic.

Good luck to those of you who play.

Edit to add: If you are eliminated in Step 4, you are officially "dead money" and there is nothing you can do to change this.
An obscene amount of people win either move on, or get another chance at a lower level.... I can't remember off hand, but if you are being eliminated from a sit-n-go 2 table tourney in the first 3 levels, Well then, you're in over your head.

I honestly think they are pretty easy.
Set aside a few buy-ins. Say, 10 entries. If you have no success in the first 4 tries, then skip it. You probably won't win.

Oh yeah, and not to forget that if you bubble out of these things you still win a couple of bucks.

I bubbled out of one attempt and landed the money spot... (Can't remember but does $30 sound right?) Either way Let's look back.... I spent $11 and won $30. Profit of $18. It doesn't matter if it was at a level 2 or a level 4.
Same profit equals same profit.

[Penguinfan]

Actually ChipFish I was referring to the SINGLE table version they now offer and how much better these are than the 2-table game, just my opinion.

[ChipFish]

Single table is worse in my opinion.
Not as many chips in play. Have to finish higher... 2nd vs 4rth.
Although this is the same when you divide by number of players, it is not.
Since there are less chips in play, there is less room for error.

Look at it this way.
Single table 5 left 2 make the money.
Multi-table 5 left 4 make the money.

[PShabi]

I've played in a few of the MTT steps: beat step 1 1st try, got a "requalifying spot" for step 2 first try there, then I busted out of step 2 in my second attempt.

I played 2 mroe step 1s but no luck.

I've also played in one STT step tourney. I really didn't like it at all. I think I had the misfortune of having probably 6-7 solid players at the table with me. I doubled up on the first hand, yes first hand. By the time we got to 4/5 handed, the blinds were pretty high and everyone had equal stacks.

From that point on, it was a crapshoot. I mean when there 8k in chips at the table, roughly evenly divided between 4 or 5 of you, what can you do at $400 big blinds.

I'm not liking my chances with the structure if things become a crap shoot at 3 out of 5 levels or worse.

I'm going to be an occasional player of the 2 table versiions.

[ChipFish]

another reason to play the multi-steps vs the single-steps is the timed levels vs. the 10 hands per level.... you definitely want timed levels....

Pshabi, how do you do in Single-table- Sit-n-gos?
I would imagine you could do all right, or are you strictly a limit-ring game player? Nothing wrong with that, just curious.

[PShabi]

Last month I played 20 sit and goes. All of them were $20+2 buy-in single tables at Party. It was sort of a trial for me because I am mostly a limit player, but I love No Limit Tourney style.

My breakdown:

1st - 3
2nd - 3
3rd - 1


Out of money finishes

4th - 3
5th - 3
other-7

So, I profited only $80. I had fun, but I don't particularly like the results. Being honest with myself, out of the 13 non-money finishes, I probably got busted going in with the best 2-3 times minimum.

So, if I have a little better luck, and get one more money finish out of those "bad beats," and I could improve my heads up win percentage and get one more 1st, I may be able to be a decent "winner" here. That coupled with the fact that I'm improving my game as well.

Just read TJ and McEvoy (the championship series book) for the first time. I usually absorb better the 2nd time through so here goes the second read.

[nflchad]

Is it possible to work your way up to step 5 in the 2 table and then at step 5 go to the single table since it pays out better 40% as opposed to 20%. I made it to step 5 but busted out 12th I didnt find it to be particurally difficult to get to level 5 but at that point the competition improved signifigantly.

[omahilo]

alot of the "online sharks" buyin directly to step 5 since it is a 1K SNG for them so thats why step 5 is tougher.

[ChipFish]

actually they will buy ib at level 4 or sometimes level 3....
They are called sharks for a reason

[johnbaker]

a friend of mine got over 10k a few weeks ago on his pp account and decided to buy straight into a level 5 steps tourny.... he won it, kept buying into them, and is consistently winning... i think once you have a big bankroll on party, buying straight into 1000$ steps is the most profitable investment for a good player, because most of the people there are just lucky so-so players who got on a rush after starting at level 1 or 2. proof of this is that last night he had over 35k in his account, and is now multitabling $1000 steps tournies whenever he plays... all of my friends are in awe of him, because hes making more hourly than all of our families combined.

check out his standings on the tourney leader board, his name is (Rebirth1)

[ChipFish]

Actually I stand corrected... There are several buying directly in to step 5.
Sorry omahilo.

[omahilo]

yeah I wouldnt see why they wouldnt... the sharks play 5K HU SNGs on star so a 1K MTT or single table SNG has to look just as good if not better.