Bragging about being better than TP at something.

[Misc]

I know I'm new here, so I don't know how much bragging TP does on this forum about what a great staker he is. I can tell you he loves to gloat over at PTP. See if you like these numbers TP.

Ok, I know I'm only a brand new staker compared to Mr. Moneybags, but since I started a little over 3 months ago here they are:
BAP Investments:
148 investments closed.
$2,837.00 invested
$3,350.42 returned
18.10% ROI
This already has $149 of rolled BAPs (including stormswa) deducted representing 5.25% of lost ROI

MAD Stakes:
158 investments closed
$1746.60 invested
$2,390.11 returned
$6,413.41 buyins played
36.84% ROI
This already has $77 of rolled MAD stakes deducted representing 4.41% of lost ROI

Am I worthy TP?

[Talking Poker]

Nice numbers.

I certainly don't think I brag though - at all. I posted my numbers after 3 months or so (people had been posting numbers that week), but don't think I've posted anything since.

Good thing too, since I am probably even AT BEST since then.

My ROI was flirting with 20% for a bit there, but it's dropped WAY down recently, thanks in no small part to rollings.

[Wes]

I am pretty solidly a losing staker.

[Misc]

Must be a three month thing then. I felt like bragging. I remember you posting yours a while back. So I blamed you for bragging first to make me feel better about doing it.

[Misc]

I will post my staking theory here for anyone interested.

First, I don't stake cash or live games. I may toss a couple of bucks at a live or cash BAP in a trusted horse, but I never MAD stake for cash or live play. Only SNG's and occasionally MTT's. I usually look for SNG series from my horses and look for horses interested in HEEBs.

I start with the basis that some games are easier to yield a higher ROI than others. For example, maintaining a 20%+ ROI in 45-man or 180-man games, seems a bit easier than in the 6 or 9 man games. The problem is that the variance is higher in those games. The only way to beat variance is by volume. But who has the time to play thousands of $4.40 180-man games, or $1.10-$6.50 45-man games. Unemployed horses, that's who.

For the sake of simplicity here is a model that has worked good for me. If you are a staker, feel free to adopt this model for your own needs. First, I am looking for horses that can put in volume. It doesn't have to be hundreds of games per week, but I like to see at least 25 or more games per week. Usually 50 or more. Some of my horses play even more, but I realize there are fewer horses that can play over 50 games per week.

For horses that are new or unknown, I start them with $2.50 to play $0.10 360-man games. I know those games are boring and generally a waste of time, but frankly it isn't my time. It's my money, and I don't feel like wasting too much of it until a horse can prove that he can keep a clean informed rail, communicate well, play the required volume, and respect my money and the stake. I look at these games as the horse's true application for a larger stake. I let the horse run 25-50 games. I doesn't matter if he wins or loses. I can gauge his performance on many levels for only $2.50. I don't know of very many businesses where you can buy qualified leads for only $2.50.

Once a horse has proven himself worthy by keeping a good rail, communicating well, and properly working from start to end of a $2.50 stake, I promote many of my horses to $27.50 to play $1.10 45-man games. Based on their performance and a 2% or less BR management rule, I advance them to the $3.25, $6.50, $12, and $27 games. $27 is as high as any of them have gotten so far, but I would even consider the $60 games, for the right horse.

I currently have about a dozen or so horses employed under this system. With 12 horses running 25-50 games per week, my money is in action for about 500 games each week that I otherwise couldn't play. By having the horse play multiple time through the given BR, you can increase you ROI per stake with even a modest playing ROI.

For example, if I give you 25 buyins to play 50 games, and you return a 20% ROI, you will win 10 buyins. We would split them 5 and 5, and I would actually earn 20% on my investment, even though we split your 20% ROI.

I'm sort of babbling now, but I hope this helps some people who may be interested in staking. I am not rich and frankly don't have the "disposable" income to gamble. I started three months ago with about a $1000 staking BR that was basically my playing BR. Since I began playing staked, I didn't need all of my playing BR in my poker account so I staked it out.

I have never really looked at poker as gambling. It has always been an investment with a measurable return. I find that spreading the risk of variance across multiple profitable players is a very good thing. Well, at least it has been for the last 3 months or so.

[MAYHEM45]

Awesome post. +rep.

[Misc]

Thanks Mayhem45. To complete the thought. I dug up these old posts I made as a newbie at PTP. It outlines the same plan (with minor differences), that I have pretty much stuck to since then, which have resulted in the above posted results.

[drewjax]

You should just pick one person to stake who has run well for you and stick with that horse.

Hmmm, thinking, thinking, thinking..............


No leftwingSWAredbankeejitaments

and DEFINATELY no Fildydonkaments

[sjay2k]

i'm down 10k or so staking yippee

[Reel Deal]

Here's a plan that's worked for me: Stake only TP or Kurn.

[JDMcNugent7]

word. im way negative.

[jillaj]

So are you splitting rakeback with these people if they get it?

[Misc]

Actually no. I let the horse keep any rakeback or FPPs earned. I do not have a FTP account so I don't stake there. I don't think Pokerstars has any rakeback deals, but the horses do earn FPPs, which is similar I suppose. I let them keep the FPPs and do whatever they want with them.

[gogzy]

nice work

my mutual fund that i run started with a 1k bankroll roughly 1 month ago, i have currently 1300 out in investments and a floating roll ( for good investments that appear) of about 400.
I honestly dont think i can sustain the roi that i have atm and im probably due for a bad run in my investments

my strat for investing is pretty simple: im putting a little money into a lot of horses, i will invest more into sitgo/mtt heebs than i do into quick hit high variance baps. most of my investing is done in BAP but i occasionaly stray into mad to stake some sitgo series

[MAYHEM45]

Hey Misc, what would you estimate your hourly rate to be at staking?

Im thinking of getting into the MAD side of the site, but if the hourly rate is tiny compared to what I can make just playing, I'll stay away. I may put up a few stakes just for fun every once in a while though. The thing about BAPs that I like is that it takes me maybe 20 mins tops to read over ads and choose good investments every day, and I can get right to playing. MAD seems like a ton more work than that.

[PShabi]

What's MAD?

[Misc]

MAD = Make A Deal over at PTP.
BAP = Buy A Piece.

Basically the difference is that in a BAP the horse makes a plan and solicits investors. The horse pays a fee for the BAP ad. In MAD the staker makes the plan and horses apply. The staker chooses the best horse to fit for his plan.

Wow. I never really measured it in terms of hourly rate. I mean, I spend plenty of unnecessary hours doing it. But, it's like reading the newspaper in between playing sessions. I'll check on the progress of stakes or BAPs I'm invested in. I may look for a horse that is playing right now and go rail him or watch him. I'll send BS PM's and make BS posts in the rails to the horses. Plus many other fruitless hours that are really not necessary.

As far as the playing time, I don't spend any of it, it's all the horses who play the games. The only time you really need to invest is putting up your MAD ad, reviewing the applications, making your selection, shipping the money, and wait for it to come back.

Once you ad is written, you may modify it a bit, but basically it is a copy and paste thing, so hardly no time involved after an hour investment creating your ad. Once you place it, you wait a couple of hours for a few applications. Perhaps you put in a playing session during that time, then come back to your ad. Take an hour reviewing applications, make a selection or two, ship a few bucks, and as Ron Popiel would say, "Set it an forget it."

Now I do keep a stat in my spreadsheet called ROI/Time gone. I don't know if I am calculating it right, but I take my average profit per stake and divide it by my average stake amount and then divide that by the average number of days my money is gone. I am trying to figure out what my daily ROI for each dollar I have out for the amount of time it is out. I don't have this stat in my BAP spreadsheet, but in my MAD spreadsheet it is 6.32%.

This number is incredibly high compared to my expectations, so I must be doing something wrong. However, I think the fact that I try to employ volume horses and do my best to keep them happy is what makes this possible. The final stat I'll share, which can by extrapolated from my orginal post, is that on average my horses play 367% more buyins than I stake them for. This is very important in my opinion, which can also be easliy inferred by by other posts I made. Keeping this above 200% is critical to succesful staking IMO.

I don't know if I answered your question Mayhem, but I just never really though about staking from an hourly perspective like I do playing, so I did the best I could. Maybe Gogzy or TP can shed a little more light.

[Misc]

I went ahead and calculated this number and added it to my BAP spreadsheet. In comparison, my BAP daily ROI is 0.89%. This is closer to what I think could be an attainable long term number.

[Misc]

Wow. Look at that. My last two posts were exactly 12 hours apart.

Oh, I should mention, I am easily amused.