10 person sit and go's

[bdawg31]

What are everyone's thoughts on the 10 person Sit and Go's? There seems to be a great deal of luck involved in these - are people having any long-term success at them?

[Aequitas58]

They are my bread and butter. Came on here just after placing 2nd in a 20+2. They are good tournaments. Fast, blinds climb rapidly... forces play in certain situations.

I like them.

[Penguinfan]

I think they are beatable, but I have to work on my strategy, currently I play super-super tight in the early rounds where you can't win much by stealing the blinds, whats the point in raising 100 with 10-10, if you get everyone to fold you pick up 25 chips which will not help you much, if at all in the long run, if you get called what do you do when an ovecard falls and you get bet into? Folding at that point really hurts you as you have given up 100 of a beginning stack of 800 (party), and that puts you behind from the go. So like I said I think ultra tight is the way to go since you can't really win much early, but you can lose way too much, the risk/reward factor just isn't there. Having said that I know I am having trouble knowing when to change modes as I am rarely in a position to have alot of chips when it get to 5-6 people left and find that 1 mistake usually ends my chances of cashing. I think the super tight strategy works simply because I have seen people on disconnect finsh 4th alot and in 2 occasions they finished 2nd and 3rd, now obviously that won't work as a strategy in every game, but it's worth noting.

I would like to hear how you guys who are sucessful at theses games so it.

Penguinfan

[bdubbers]

I've had a bit of success in them, but not consistant. i try to play really tight at the beginning, but the only time i finish in the money is if i catch a good hand in the early going(first 2 or 3 people going out) and i win big. otherwise my tight play seems to get me behind when there are 5 or 6 people left and i usually end up finishing 4th or 5th. i do better at ring games multi tournaments.

[2Tone]

These make up a good portion of my play. I play everything from the $5+1 to $30+3 at Party. My favorite is $10+1, where you aren’t paying a 20% rake, but the play is still relatively soft. At the lower dollar levels, if you sit tight for the first round, you'll often find at least a couple of maniacs have wiped each other out with early all-in bets.

I find the key is being able to adjust aggression levels based on how many players are left, which is a part of my game that I know needs fine-tuning.

[bdubbers]

at what point do you stop playing tight and start being more aggressive. just when you think the "maniacs" have killed eachother off? whenever i lose in these it seems i start tight then when its time to make a move i start getting cold cards and by the time i get something to play the blinds have passed me a few times and im looking at a 1 to 3 chip disadvantage. maybe i'm making my move too late?

[2Tone]

At risk of making myself out to be far more on an expert than I actually am ...

For me, it is less a matter of "Oh, now there are five players left and blinds have gone up, time to throw the aggressive switch" and more of a gradual progression from very-tight at the beginning to (hopefully) stealing blinds left and right in heads up play. Perhaps think of it of increasing in 10% increments for each player that is knocked out.

One other observations. I find play changes noticeably as you get to within one/two/three players of the money, depending on size of the field. No one wants to have played for that long, and end up with nothing so close to the promised land. This can be a prime time to make some moves -- with the obvious caveat that if these go wrong, it can be you who ends up finishing so close but yet so far!

[bdubbers]

i think i'll just stick to ring games. i fair much better in them. im better when i can play and win a big pot, or even sit through a cold run of cards without feeling like i HAVE to win a big hand.

[humpty99]

Patience is key. You can finish in the money in these things by winning 4 or 5 medium pots. Wait for solid starting hands, and always come in raising. There will be people that call you down with terrible hands, but raising still gets rid of most of the junk hands. This allows you to go heads up or three way on most pots which works to your advantage. If you have good instincts, you'll realize when someone caught their hand based on their betting. I'm not saying I always catch it, but I'd say 80% I know when I'm beat. I don't have any stats for you, but I finish in the money most of the time.

On an added note, if you are playing Party Poker that is one big reason why you feel luck is involved so much. The blind structure for the SNGs at Party are the worst of any big name site. I used to play there, and did well there also, but now I've found that Paradise and Poker Stars give good solid players a much better chance to win. Take a look at Paradise Poker's SNG structure, then look at Party and you'll see what I mean. The one draw back of this structure is that it takes longer. A SNG on Paradise will take close to 90 minutes as opposed to 60 or less on Party. Party is a good site with a large player base, but Paradise is the best I've played on and I have no affiliation what so ever with any site.

[2Tone]

Do you find the better blind structure outweighs the number of “I’ll call with anything” players at Party?

[johnbaker]

I find that a very tight agressive strategy always keeps me healthy until the blinds are 50/100 and higher. At this point I start relying on stealing the blinds more, and I will play suited connectors in a 3 or 4 way unraised pot.

There is a LOT of luck involved in these sit and go's, i won $300 by winning a lot of $10 and $20 ones, then i lost it all playing the $5+1 ones where everyone calls with crap and dont let you protect strong hands. You are a dog in EVERY pot you enter in cheaper sit and go's, for long term success I suggest sticking with $20+2 and higher.

[Aequitas58]

Exactly. Tight in the beginning and loose/aggressive at the end.

[Charlie Frank]

Tight/aggressive at the start - getting looser but staying aggresive as it progresses. I usually go hyper-aggressive around level 5 on Party.

CF

[bothecorgi]

I have found that the early rounds are a matter of playing tight-aggressive and letting the loose players knock themselves out. When you get down to about 4 players, it does seem like kind of a crapshoot since the blinds may be forcing people nearly all in every hand.

[Aequitas58]

If you are playing tight-agressive the whole tournament, you are missing out on some opportunites, my friend. You can [when the blinds get (relatively) high and the first few people go] steal blinds and build your stack.

I'm an advocate of playing ultra tight when it's 4 handed for just the simple reason that you're on the bubble. Conversely, it's g00t to throw in some moves, steal some blinds and trap people.

[bothecorgi]

I agree when the blinds get higher. I was referring more to the first 2 rounds when the blinds are relatively low. It seems like people are willing to just throw all their chips on on junk hands during the first 2 rounds of these SnGs.

[BlibbityBlabbity]

I find that if you play too tight at the beginning with a few loose players, you end up in 4-5th place with five left and are essentially picking a hand to make a stand with (depending on how fast the blinds escalate). By letting the loose players "knock eachother out" you guarentee that there will be a loose player or two with a big stack late in the tourney, while you are short stacked.

[Aequitas58]

BB: You're wrong.

If you are comfortable w/ the way you play, then keep on truckin, buddy... but you really should consider tightening up in the first few rounds. Even if you are blinded for a few orbits, you will still have over 600 to fight with.

I came back w/ 150 something and won before - coolest thing ever. LOL.

[DanielL]

Over the past 4 years, I've played a LOT of sit n go's, from $5 up to $200, limit, no limit, pot limit, hold 'em, omaha, stud-8 at several sites.

I play mainly at Party due to the game selection. I agree with an earlier poster that it's a bit more of a crapshoot than Stars because of fewer starting chips and quicker escalating blinds, but I like the fact that they last less than an hour.

Skill Level
$5 - horrendous
$10 to $30 - a core group of good, solid players with about 30% bad players
$50 to $200 - only a few bad players

Limit hold 'em vs. No limit
Seems to me that Limit becomes more of a crapshoot than No Limit because of the limits going up so quickly. You're playing for all your chips more quickly in limit, so you must get aggressive earlier than in No Limit

Tight early and Aggressive Later
Several have brought up this concept, and it's correct. However, one thing I've found is that once the final 3 are in the money, the skill level shift is dramatic. It's almost as if most players are satisfied to be in the money, and don't care if they finish first, second or third. I find that if I get to the money with at least 25% of the chips, I have a very good shot at finishing first (maybe I'm just a good heads up player )

Pot Limit Hold 'em
The "ugly stepchild" of the sit n go's, but, in my opinion, a very good structure. It takes away the maniac's ability to push all in when only $25 of blinds have been posted, and rewards betting skills. If you like no limit, but are tired of the "all in maniacs", try the pot limit.

Three table sit n go's at Party (and, to a lesser degree, 2 table tourneys)
I find these to be very good practice for larger, multi table tournaments. It's like entering a large tournament half way through, skipping the first couple of hours of low limit rounds. 30 players, with 5 getting paid, you need to pay attention to average stack size, you get practice playing short handed (6 or 7 per table before a table breaks), when tables combine you have to figure out other playing styles, etc. A lot more of the elements of multi table tournaments, but in a shorter format. Very good practice for the big ones.

Also, in the 3 table tournaments, due to the large number of chips relative to blind sizes, when you get down to 7 or 8 players, you get a LOT of hands on or near the bubble without having to just shove in and hope for the best. Also, 3 handed, and heads up play lasts a lot longer. All very good practice for those big, live tournaments when you find yourself at a final table.

Stud-8 and Omaha-8
The average skill level in these is much higher than in hold 'em, as there are many players that specialize in these games and play nothing but Stud-8 or Omaha. You will find a smattering of clueless players just "trying out" something new, but you'll find 3 or 4 players in each of these tourneys who are VERY solid.

I guess I'm rambling too much for my first post at this forum.
Good Luck to all
Dan

[BlibbityBlabbity]

I should have been more specific. By "not playing too tight" I don't mean playing loose, but identifying the loose players, and taking advantage of them when you feel you have them beat. By loose players I mean the type that will push in/bet pot with Kx, Qx, J9, etc. Seems that people give these players credit for AA, KK, AK over and over (they pushed all in preflop, didn't they?), and don't take into account the hands they have shown down.

[Tilter]

SNGS are great as you can home your shorthanded game/final table game so you know what to do under certain situations.

[Defendant]

I agree with the general notion of playing tight early, but there is one big downside to this.

Assuming Party, its so much cheaper to play suited connectors or low pairs early...it only costs you 15 in an unraised pot. You know, those hit or miss kind of hands: flop it and win a huge pot, or miss the flop and fold cheaply. You know youre gonna get paid off, so might as well play those hands while theyre cheap.

Thus, my strategy usually is to play tight AFTER the flop, not so much before the flop (still shouldnt call any raises with those hands though).

Defendant

[GeoffM]

You can make the final four of these sit-n-gos simply by playing extremely tight, and hypothetically folding every single hand, regardless what it is.

Luck does not become a huge factor until it is down to 4 players, that is when they become tougher. None the less, in order to make money, you have to make the final four. Just play extremely tight, play only the big 10 hands, and you'll do just fine. If you are playing the lower limits like me you should be able to cash about 80-90% of the time.