poker Idea

[BrianSwa]

ok so I think everyone on here knows I'am a losing poker player, if you are new just do a search for me and you will see very easily that I'am big time loser. I guess the biggest reason for this is I have never had the need to bankroll manage or anything, I could always just work a little extra if I wanted to play. This maybe ok for some but looking back on this last year it makes me sick the amount of money I have wasted. Honestly I think I have all the tools to be a winning player but without good bankroll managment skills being ok or even good player can only take you so far.

I have busted out of many bankrolls playing above my skill level and honestly since I have never bankroll managed I really dont know what my skill level is. Well I came up with this idea today and wanted to run it by you. Now before you respond to it please put aside your personal opinion of me and just answer the question of "do you think this is wise idea?". Also the comment of "you suck just quit" does me no good because at this point I dont want to quit something I enjoy.

ok so around the end of next month I will have a $1,000 bankroll, now by standard that is just enough to be bankrolled for .50/1.00 nl and good bankroll for .25/.50 but I dont know If Iam good enough to sit there. I have no way of knowing really how good I'am because of all my bouncing around levels. So here is the idea I had, I just started a new pokertracker database to do this. I want to start from the begining and yes I mean very very begining. I want to take my $1,000 bankroll and sit at .05/.10 NL until I reach a certain money value here is how I figure it.


LEVEL MONEY NEEDED TO WIN TO MOVE UP


.5/.20 +$200
.10/.25 + $400
.25/.50 + $800
.50/1.00 + $1600
1/2 + $3200
2/4 + $6400


as you can see I would have to win 8 buyin at the lower level to move up and if I ever lose that 8 buyin move back down...rinse/dry/repeat. Now if at any time I move up without hitting that mark I would withdraw right away and quit. If I cant stick to bankroll managment I shouldnt be playing anyway right? Thats it really, I think this will be good for me to determine my actul skill level and if and that is a big if I get to those higher levels I will know I belong there and I will have a great bankroll for that level. Comments?

[2Tone]

I think it less an issue of a particular set of numbers, and more an issue of discipline in general. Whether you win 8x or 10x at a particular buy-in isn’t really important. Theoretically that could happen in one amazing session. It’s more a question of whether you are emotionally able to handle the wins/losses that come with playing at higher limits.

I’d also suggest you look at your primary motivation for both playing in general, and more specifically for moving up in limits. If you play for enjoyment, as you say, is there a reason you can’t get that enjoyment from certain levels and not others?

And if you are playing to make money, you have to find the level which is the most profitable, which is NOT the same thing as the highest level you can play. If you can consistently beat the .25/50 game, but get crushed at 1/2, it’s clear which one you should be at, no matter what your bankroll is.

[BrianSwa]

playing for couple reasons, one is for the pure enjoyment of it and yes any level would be enjoyable to me. I basicly want to improve though, I picked the numbers though because I think they are high enough that they pass the rush rate for the level. Winning $200 at .05/.10 should be enough to decide if I'am actully beating that level, $400 should be enough to know if Iam beating that level etc etc etc.

I would like to move up and be stable at around 1/2 level but dont want to go up there until Iam positive that I'am good enough to sit there. Right now im 99.9% sure iam not good enough to sit there. I thought this would let me improve my play and work my way up to that level and basicly work on good bankroll managment. Think Iam correct in this or am i way off?

as for losing the buy-ins if I make them off a lower level I would be ok losing them as long as I drop down the level once I lose them.

also a big reason I want to do this is by the time I get to a beatable level like .25/.50 I will have a giant bankroll for that level. I mean if I do this and start with 1,000 by the time i get to .25/.50 I will have $1,600 which is like 31 buy-ins

[2Tone]

Again, I’d focus on the most money you can make from any given table.

My local card room spreads 3/6 and 4/8 games. The other night, the 3/6 game was significantly juicer than the 4/8, thanks to one particular maniac donator who seemed intent on spewing his chips. So I requested a ‘reverse move’ from 4/8 to 3/6 to try and take advantage, even though (at least I like to think) that I’m properly rolled and able to play the 4/8 game.

Here’s where PokerTracker and data mining can really help. I’m sure there are some 1/2 NL games you can beat. But catch a real tough .25/50 game, and it would be easy to drop a few buy-ins.

I’d be worried less about specific numerical benchmarks, and more about your skill level vs. the rest of any given group of players, and more importantly emotional state at all times. Tilt at .25/.50 is much worse than solid play at 1/2, though I’ll grant you that tilt at 1/2 is worse than tilt at .25/50.

[drewjax]

You suck, just quit.























sw
SWA

[BrianSwa]

I totally agree with that but how do you know how good you are unless you start from the begining? I have jumped around levels soo much that I have no clue what level of game I can beat which is why I want to start at lowest level and work my way up. I picked the money values as a base to know If Iam actully beating that level.

I totally understand what you are saying and Iam not argueing with you at all , but without doing it this way how else would you know at what level you belong? I can afford to buy-in to some higher level and be bankrolled for it but thought this might also help any disapline issues that I still have.

[drewjax]

If you started a new PT database this should obviously help you to see where your playing level is at. You can objectively look and see what your results are. You could meet the goals to move up each time (eventually), but you may not be able to tell which level you are most successful at, if you simply keep moving up. Once you meet one of your goals to move up to next level, really look at your results. See what your bb/100 is etc. Then when you are about to move up again, look and see the differences. You may not realize that it took you 50% longer to reach the next level (or that you did it a little quicker). Also, be honest about how you have felt during play at each level. If you remember feeling really anxious when re-raising w/ AKs, then maybe you should move back down a level, and just try to crush it for all its worth.

my

Man, I should take my own advise. I am not even using PT now, since I got a new computer.

GL

[BrianSwa]

good suggestions. +rep comming soon.

[drewjax]

Wow. I might finally get to 2 bars!

GOSH

[BrianSwa]

makes up for negative I gave

[drewjax]

jokes man jokes.

SW

duh.......

[BlibbityBlabbity]

I think, if you are putting this mouch thought into a "plan" you should also add a component geared toward # hands as well. If you reach the +$200 goal and move up after a great run in only 2000 hands, you will have very little useful information to know if you were playing well, getting lucky, etc. Also, you would have very little information as to what leaks are developing/exist in your game that you might be able to fix as you move up in limits (if not before).

I think it is reasonable to assume that as you move up each limit the likelyhood that there are players who will be able to see your flaws and exploit them goes up. Where you might be able to get away with the flaw in 5c/10c, by the time you get to 25c/50c it is going to be killing you for 4x the cost/ mistake.

Set up PokerTracker (and learn how to use it), set up PAHUD (and learn how to use it - table selection and during a hand), and datamine every night/day while you are away from your computer so that when you sit down you have as much info on as many players as possible.

Set a # hands goal for each level IN ADDITION to the monetary goal to move up. If you are not hitting the money goal, keep playing beyond the minimum # hands until you do.

5c/10c ($10 buyin) x 20 buyins = $200

Why start at $1000? I like the idea that you don't want to be right on the edge of the bankroll requiremtns, so here is my suggestion... DO NOT put the whole $1000 online. Take $500 and put it online (that is 50 buyins) and take the other $500 and if you succeed, great, take the $500 and buy something nice for your you or family, if you don't cash out whatever is left and buy something nice for your family with $500 + extra.

[thrash1294]

Brian I kinda like your plan. Win the 8 buyins then move to the next level
with the profit.The key will be discipline If you lose the profit You need to back down every time NO MATTER WHAT..

If you bust at the next level take a break and rethink where you went wrong
Even if you go bust at the next level due to 2 outers and the like and not from how you played ,You still have to commit to moving back down.
I repeat NO MATTER WHAT

Commit to never redepositing....

[BrianSwa]

that will be how much I will have not what I will be putting on the site.

great idea on min requirement of hans. You think 5k in hands is enough?

[JDMcNugent7]

i didnt reaad replies but this sounds liek an exceleent idea my man.

[BlibbityBlabbity]

What limits have you played (and how much have you already played them)? More importantly, how much success heve you had at the each level over #xxx hands? BTW, this is only useful if you had PT running for them or have the HHs available.

I think in the first couple of levels you could probably make do with 5000 hands and maybe as you move up you play more at each limit.

5c/10c = 5000
10c/25c = 7500 (or maybe 5000 also if you already have a large sample size to work with)
25c/50c and up = 10,000 each

Something like that.....

[BrianSwa]

I most likley have played every level up to 3/6 NL lol...sad aint it? Seriously though most of the play had been from .10/.25 to 1/2, I have had limited sucess at all the levels, I think mainly though at the higher levels I was just trying to recover funds from a bad beat at a lower level. Horrible Idea I know, dont try it at home kids.

I like your numbers though and I will go with them, I would like to post pokertracker screenshots weekly so you all can see how I'am doing with this. I really want a break though so I wont be doing this till next month sometime.

[BrianSwa]

looking back at some of my past numbers and actully what I will have to start I might start at .10/.25NL. I will be making a $500 deposit so will have 20 buy-ins at that level to start which is plenty. I will still move down to .05/.10 if I lose 8 of them though.

I will post some screen shots when this gets underway.