Biggest Pet Peeve

[Jackass_man]

I absolutely hate people who reraise with straight and flush draws, has to be one of the most aggrevating things for me, one the one hand it's great when they miss but today everyone just kept on hitting the miracle cards. I have QQ in 1\2 limit I raise preflop and get two caller. Flop comes Q47, Q4 are diamonds player A checks player B bets I raise player A folds me and player B cap it, the turn is 8c we cap it again, river diamond! Shit I lose, but it's such a dumb play to raise and reraise with a draw especially in limit.

[stussy2k]

you gotta live with stuff like that. These are the people that are putting money in your pocket.

[Jackass_man]

Except this last week they've been taking it, I'm down $200 and frigging broke. If I don't cash out some money soon I'll be eating ICHIBAN the rest of the month!

[humpty99]

Your limit is too low. Those players at that limit are the maggots of the poker world....except for you of course. Once you build you money back up, move up a couple notches. A lot of those people will have went away. Not all though, believe me.

[johnbaker]

yeah dont be worried if you're down a lot in a game like that... whenever i play low limit theres so many idiots that its practically like playing against colluders... i'm automatically a dog to win the pot unless i flop a monster, everyone will chase every draw to the river, and one of them ALWAYS catches some kind of draw.... its sick

Save yourself some grief and go play at the NL tables or at O8B, where people playing like shit screws you less often than in low limit holdem

-JB

[Aequitas58]

ReRaising is a good play. It's an attempt at a free card on the turn.

These suckouts happen. For a week, you'll keep getting hurt, then the next week all of their flush draws will come up short, and you'll think you're becoming a better player.

Just wait and see.

[Aequitas58]

LOL - or these are people that can help build your bankroll so you can sit in that cheated $15/30 game, right?

[Charlie Frank]

Apart from Lou, everyone who thinks they "contributed" to this thread has done exactly the opposite.

You people have so much to learn about limit poker.

I am a pretty nice guy, and I am willing to teach you, but not with the attitude of the original poster (who was only complaining, not keen to learn) nor with the attitudes of stussy, humpty and johnbaker, who simply gave the original poster bad advice (under the pretence that they actually know what they are talking about). They simply don't have a clue. This is not meant to offend, this is simply a statement of fact.

If any of you are interested in learning about limit, ask nicely and I will be more than happy to enlighten you.

CF

[Jackass_man]

Maybe you didn't read the name of the post, but please enlighten us on how to play a set against a person drawing.

[jayadd]

you cant let people draw for cheap so raising any chance you get is a good thing.

[Jackass_man]

If anyone thinks capping two rounds of betting with a flush draw please let me know since that was what I was bitching about to begin with.

[Talking Poker]

YOU played it right - keep ramming and jamming that pot while you have the nuts (in this case, top set). What Charlie is saying, and I hope he will clarify, is that the person raising with their draw isn't making as bad a play as you think. I didnt' see the hand, but it may not have been a bad play at all.

If I flop a nut flush draw, for example, I will ALWAYS raise the flop bet (even if the guy has top set, which I obviously wouldn't know) when I'm in late position. I do this for two reasons:

1. It build the pot and gives me better math to continue with my draw
2. It usually gives me the option of taking a free card on the turn.

[2Tone]

I'm going to agree with Talking Poker. In a limit game, raising a four card nut flush draw sure seems like the best play to me. That makes Jack's original post difficult to empathize with, even if I think he did play it correctly by raising back (You did raise back, right Jack?).

Charlie's post slipped by without much controversy. If I'm on the receiving end, I sure would take offense at the tone. But given that he's right, it’s harder to complain. But who's Lou?

[Jackass_man]

Ok I'll try to explain this again I'm not saying raising with 4 to a nut flush is a bad move, reraising is! capping the betting on the flop and turn (which means reraising the original raiser to a total of 4 bets) . By doing this on the turn you're only out is to hit the flush and your putting in way to much on hoping to catch the flush. Look at the odds at making a flush on the turn or river 1 in 4 or 25% chance. Are you willing to risk 6 big bets on that!

[johnbaker]

i have a couple of questions for you...
1) how can u possibly think that you can give the poster good advice when he played the hand perfectly
2) how do i not know what i'm talking about when my math is completely right... in every 2/4 limit game ive ever played in i get a family pot about 2 out of 3 hands. even if i tighten up and play only premium hands, i would be at BEST a 33% favorite (with AA). Opponents at this level chase any kind of draw, reasonable or not, which cripples the statistical strength of my hand. obviously I could play at the top of my game and win in the long run, but i would have to play hundreds of hands per week for everything to average out. I just offered my personal preference to the poster, because you will almost never get a full table of donating idiots in an omaha game, especially at higher limits. Also, fish playing in NL holdem games always tend to float to the surface. Terrible draw-outs can be prevented, and when an idiot decides to chase a draw, you can get almost all of his chips, unlike in limit.


If you somehow think youre still right about what you said, please tell me, because i cant really imagine anything you could say that would prove you right.

-JB

[Jackass_man]

thank you

[Charlie Frank]

JackAss Man, the question was never whether you played the set correctly -the question was whether your opponent played it correctly. Raising a 4 flush on the flop and capping it is almost always a good idea. There would be some times when it wouldn't necessarily be a good idea, like if you are headsup and out of position. I missed the bit about him capping it on the turn - that's another story altogether - it sounds like bad play but that doesn't necessarily mean it is. You need to work on his writing skills and the way you describe action on a hand - you didn't even say what his opponent's hand was or what his playing style up until that point was. Let me know if you want me to give you an example of a well-described hand.

JohnBaker, see above. The question was never about his play - show me where he asked "Did I play this set correctly?"

JohnBaker - you said this! Anyone - ANYONE - that makes a statement like that obviously has NO clue how to play limit poker. Considering this is a limit poker thread, it makes you look pretty silly to be offering advice when, by your own admission, you can't do well at it. You can apologise whenever you like.

Buddy, if you are complaining about beats in limit holdem, then you would blow your mind in omaha. O8 would drive you completely bonkers. So it is clear you know nothing about omaha either. Unless you apologise, I will not talk to you again. If you do apologise for being dumb and opinionated (being dumb is not a crime, being dumb AND opinionated IS), then I will teach you a bit about both games.

In summary, the way you learn (and trust me, you guys need to learn) is by being polite and asking intelligent questions. Trying to insult people that can help you is simply not a good idea.

CF

[Jackass_man]

Ok Charles you do have a point that I did not describe the hand well. The player was playing like a maniac he held A7d .

[Aequitas58]

Me.

I posted once on this thread, now I'm staying out of the debate.

LOL.

[johnbaker]

Ok where shall we start?

first of all, fuck you CF. You really are a stupid ass, i just wanted to get that out there. Not only from this post, but other ones you did that make little, if any sense.

moving on, let's see how you repeatedly contradict yourself here:

wow.... how about you GIVE an example of something you described well in this sentence. you write like a clumsy old man sitting at home by himself fumbling with his keyboard, not sure if he should commit himself to one idea or another. You say that capping with a nut flush draw is 'usually a good idea', but you dont explain why. Then you say that 'capping on the turn is a bad play', even though he made the flush on the turn (if i remember the post correctly)..... oh no, capping with the nuts. WHAT A BAD PLAY!

ok, how about your first post in this topic:

you're implying that you can teach us something more than we already know, according to what we posted already. The poster played the hand correctly, i dont know why else you would be offering him poker advice unless you thought that he misplayed the hand.

I think he's referring to when I said this:

"in every 2/4 limit game ive ever played in i get a family pot about 2 out of 3 hands. even if i tighten up and play only premium hands, i would be at BEST a 33% favorite (with AA) when entering a pot."

See, I still know that my math is right and that my statistics are right... in a family pot, ANY HAND IS AN UNDERDOG. The odds of one of 8 other hands not flopping 2 pair, a set, or a draw, is fairly unlikely. I seriously dont get why you refuse to understand this; until you see a flop, you cant tell if you're up against a draw or a set or a made hand, because the cards come COMPLETELY RANDOMLY. 66% of the flops you see (in your best case scenario) will give at least one other player a legitimate shot at cracking your aces, even if everyone holds trash hands like J2o. You know why? Chances are that one of those 8 hands up against you will get a 2 and a J on the flop. Its simply a rule of statistics. I'm not even talking about gameplay here, just the statistics. I'm right. You aren't. Get over it.




Oh no, the thought of not having your poker advice is just too much to bear... (I'd sarcastically ask for forgiveness but he'd take me seriously, like he did in the PP cracked joke post)

I'm well aware of the beats that happen in O8B, and if you've ever been 'driven bonkers' by a beat at that game, you should try this new thing, its what all the cool kids are doing.... its something called LAYING DOWN BOTTOM SET TO A RE-RERAISE ON 4TH, idiot.

I also dont know where you're coming from telling me I dont know what I'm talking about in limit holdem... you've never played with me, Ive never told you any of my strategies or theories, and the only part of my game you even know a tiny bit about is that I know my statistics.

(This just occurred to me, you might be dumb enough to think that earlier i was suggesting folding AA in a family pot because you only have a 33% shot at winning. This isnt what I meant you jackass, I was just describing what a crapshoot low limit is)

I think the civilized thing here would be to kick you in the balls and keep you out of the gene pool, but I'll settle for a nice fuck you, you shitty ignorant bastard.


sincerely,
-jB

[Talking Poker]

You girls are funny.

[2Tone]

In an effort to bring some sanity back to this thread ...


"Buddy, if you are complaining about beats in limit holdem, then you would blow your mind in omaha. O8 would drive you completely bonkers."

I'll go on record as saying Omaha in general drives me completely bonkers every hand. I have a handle on HL, at least enough to do alright at the lower limits and in the great fish tank that is Party. But Omaha I can't even begin to get a handle on. Every hand seems like a potential monster, though obviously this is not the case. Do you all find you choose a game to specialize in, or are you working on mastering both?

[johnbaker]

I always do everything possible to improve all of my poker games, not just holdem and omaha. If you're a good holdem player, dont assume you know what you're doing in omaha. Draws are what O8B is all about, since you basically have 6 possible holdem hands combined in one. You really have to know your math to be good at O8B, and you have to be even better at figuring out odds on the fly in PLO, where you have to deal with pot odds every single time you enter a pot. I might write an article about omaha for this site, but for now only one about PLO or O8B, not both. First person to say which they want to hear about will get their choice, if i get some nice comments about that article then i'll write an article about the other form of omaha.

-jB

[Talking Poker]

O8B.

[johnbaker]

omaha hi/lo it is, ill email you the article around sunday afternoon or somewhere around there. probably 2 pages or so

-jB