Low buy-in NL cash games

[Penguinfan]

Especially short handed, are you really trying to outplay people or just making money off their terrible play?

Seems like the more I play low buy-in cash NL games the more I realize I can't push people off hands because they literally aren't smart enough to fold. Turn that around though and when you have a hand they also can't fold third pair on a suited/connected board.

Better to just wait out the really bad players or should you still be trying to out play them?

Keep in mind the goal is to move up in levels so you have to learn to play along the way, not just wait for cards.

[Robbie Robb]

I've found that it depends a LOT on the table. I've played at some tables where you actually need to play. Then I've played on other tables where the table VPIP is around 60 so that's just a lot of sitting around and waiting for the monsters. And MAN, do they EVER pay off!

I'm not sure exactly how low of limits you're talking here, but at the micro-limit level, you're absolutely right - at 2c/4c you simply cannot push people off of hands. They're all way to willing to gamble for their $2 buy-in with a crap hand.

[Penguinfan]

That's probably true enough!

As far as them gambling, I'm not really talking about getting the chips in pre-flop, but more about when you have a made hand and they just can't get away from those pocket 6's they were dealt.

I find myself doing better by raising less pre-flop unless I have a monster hand, I was starting to raise with less than spectacular hands if I had position or an unopened pot, but now limping and making a hand seems to pay much, MUCH better.

Thats not to say you can't out-play them after the flop, but it's an ATM machine if you make a hand.

[Reel Deal]

What do you consider low-level? $25NL? $50NL? $100NL?

[melioris]

I play $25-$100 NL shorthanded and FT. I have found that it is useless to try and make plays at these levels a lot of the time. You can have some fun making plays against the rocks, but usually most people are calling stations at this level so it is not worth it. I think of these games as learning how to master preflop poker. On the flop, TPTK or better (or a CB) is really all I get into it with, as 2nd pair and the like are more than willing to pay off.

With that said, I think by the time you are at $100NL, your preflop game should be solid. Not just tight is right, but an intuitive understand of what hands have value in what situations, a firm grasp of what hands are big pot hands and what hands are small pot hands, and a mastery of how to use position. A lot of the postflop play that you see folks posting around here just aren’t +EV at ?$100NL. Sure, I mess around postflop some of the time, but it comes down to being much more +EV to hammer your good hands then to fight it out with some monkey postflop when they are not going to give up on their hand for anything. It is rare to find a player at these levels that can recognize and capitalize on your predictable play, and frankly I find it more profitable to not worry about it if someone is doing that and just continue to focus on slaughtering the fools.

Because this is how I approach the low level game, a lot of the decisions are automatic and thus I can multi-table like a fool. 95% of the players are maniacs, calling stations, or rocks. Let PAHUD distinguish for you and crush each one accordingly.

$100NL and above is where you really start working on postflop. There is a pretty good old 2+2 post about what you should be able to do at each level. I am at work and thus can’t get it right now. Hopefully I’ll remember to link it this evening.

[Penguinfan]

Good post Meloris.

RD, right now I am talking $25 NL, with my little toe in the water at $50 NL and I don't see much difference.

Everyone loves tournaments, so do I, but I have figured out that ring games are where the steady profits are at, so after deciding to sign up for CardRunners and being determind to win at cash games I am honestly starting at the low levels and gonna work my way up.

I know it won't be easy, and it is frustrating to play for 2 hours, have a decent session and bank $20 for the effort, but it is what it is. This is how I started sports betting, honestly found a book that would take $5 wagers, after years I was up to $200 a game, although now (for other reasons) I am back to $100 a game.

I know I have what it takes to grind away, just a matter of doing it.

[melioris]

I don't know if this is still applies, but I like this from 2+2

[Defendant]

I definitely agree with that, for the following reason:

The players at those levels are mostly, as you mentioned, not exactly impressive poker minds. Since everyone gets good cards and bad cards pretty equally, all you have to do is make more money on your good cards and lose less on your bad ones. If youre up against a table of fish, there is no need to outplay them, because 95% of the time, if you hit that monster, youre setand will get paid off plenty to come out ahead overall. Once players are getting better (100 NL and above), you have to make some of that money when you dont have the nuts, i.e. take more risks, and try to outplay people postflop.