tv poker affecting new players?

[stussy2k]

Does anyone feel that with the tv poker only showing very high potted hands, the new players to the game are resorting to all ins all the time? i mean, they're so unpredictably bad, i can't possibly call wtih top 2 pair and what not, and i get pissed when i find that they have middle pair ace kicker. WHY!!!

[humpty99]

I been playing some larger local live tourneys and have noticed that people attempt to make moves WAY too early. I mean we start out with 1500 in chips and the blinds are 10/20, and there will be 5 people out within the first 10-20 hands. There is not reason to call an all-in bet that early without the nuts.

[2Tone]

I think the TV coverage has been tremendous for the game. It has led to an enormous number of new players pumping money into the game. Some play well, but many more will increase your win rate.

My only fear is the eventual, inevitable backlash. What happens when a lot of these guys have lost a few hundred/thousand, get sick of it and don't come back? What happens when the over-saturation of coverage means ratings fall, poker disappears from the airwaves, and we are deprived of fresh fish?

[johnbaker]

once fish are through their first couple thousand in losses, they usually get sick of poker anyways. Its better for them to donate to the poker community and take a break, then come back after they watch another couple of WPT episodes. Their plays ARE terrible, but theres no way around that. Players who suck ass like to imitate moneymaker's strategies, because he does random shit to throw off his opponents. This is basically a fish's only defense against better players, because otherwise they would just get outplayed later.... Helmouth says that "the people who like to slide all their chips in a lot are afraid to play after the flop... which is good for them because otherwise they would get picked at by the better players until they were down to nothing".

With the recent boom in poker, i dont think its even remotely possible that its popularity will stop increasing until at least 5 years from now, when people get tired of watching the same bland bet it all preflop plays in the main event of WSOP.

-JB

[stussy2k]

the reason that poker will stay popular is quite simply stated by slansky in the theory of poker. to paraphrase, bad players will blame their losses on luck, and not skill.

[Aequitas58]

Good observation.

[2Tone]

... that and it is addictive as hell.

[Aequitas58]

The new wave is great for poker. 50,000+ players on party? That's awesome... and, as you point out, some peole will lose a lot. Some might quit, some might not, but you have to consider, as each year goes by, more and more people start to pick up the game.

[Charlie Frank]

Firstly, Stussy, if you are folding top two pair to an all-in bet, then you have a lot to learn about the game. I'm not sure what you think you need to call an all-in bet, but I guarantee you need to reassess the value of hands in HE.

Secondly, if they get you to fold after betting all-in with middle pair (ace kicker) then they have made a good play, regardless of whether you think its a good play or not.

Thirdly, in tournament play, when players go hyper-aggressive, they often do extremely well. I'm not sure what books you are reading, but you might want to throw them away and start coming up with your own logic. Often the only way to play maniacs is to become a maniac. Players who play hyper-agressive tend to create a follow-on effect, where other players become more aggressive to match that aggression. You need to be able to step up to the plate and win.

Fourthly, (and I might be repeating myself here), if you can't beat a game where players bet all-in with middle pair, then you need to step down a few levels - the thing you will find as you progress in poker is that players don't play how *you* think they should play. They will do whatever they want, regardless of the limits. Players who play 40/80 don't follow your rules. They often raise like maniacs with middle pair and often fold top pair or better. They are playing the player, not some boring set of rules designed for low limit beginners.

There is this common misperception amongst beginner/intermediate players that the higher you go in levels, the more logical the play becomes. The opposite is often the case. Try sitting in a $1000 buy in NL game and see if waiting for premium hands works for you. You will get slaughtered.

Poker is crazy, especially NL - rules are for beginners. To win, you need to learn that positional play and the ability to make people fold their equity in the pot is how you win at poker - not following some set of rules that some broken pro wrote down in a book for beginners.

Good luck.

CF

[Jackass_man]

Try watching a 25\50 NL game for a couple hours if you think some of the lower limit stuff is wild.

[Charlie Frank]

Weren't you the guy in the other thread who was telling another guy he should play NL instead of limit, because the play is better there?

Jackass_man, I am not specifically targeting you. But if I were, damn you give me a lot of ammunition. I'm starting to suspect I am getting sucked in by a talented troll.

CF

[TajaUk]

I hope people do make poor all ins on nothing more than middle pair. Eventually you will take the money from these type players.

The internet has created much more aggressive players who dont think twice about putting all their chips in on semi-bluffs. This has made the old-school pro's have to change adapt their games to counter this.

Watching the WSOP this year proved this point. You cant bluff internet players half as much as a seasoned pro. Its good for poker.

[robert2504]

With now thousands of internet players, including myself. It looks like it is the Wild Wild West again!

[GeoffM]

Well, here's my take.

More and more people are willingto see flops. Once they see a flop, and say the flop bottom 2 pair, they think they have such a great hand. Many fail to recognize flush or straight draws or even possible made straights and flushes that are on the board. They could also be facing higher 2 pair or even a set. They simply think 2 pair is good enough to win and will make a move.

I don't think the bowl will ever run out of fish, simply because of the bonus dollars various sites have. If the site ever detected that the play rate is down, they would react by offering a re-load bonus, and that is all the bait the good players would need.

[Tilter]

Those players are players that build up ppls chip stack early on. I love them They're funding my PP account

[eddo31]

obviously the television boom for poker has been great. yeah, it sucks to have to wait for 3 hours to get on a table at foxwoods, but so is life.

clearly play is changed by what people see on tv, and for the most part they become worse players. the top pros, who play together often, and understand more about the game, can clearly play at a different level than most recreational players can even comprehend. hopefully the fish keep pushing with their "unbeatable" hands.

[Defendant]

One thing I notice is people think they can get away with playing like Hansen, where they believe if he can win by playing random hands so can they, and completely forget the amount of reading skill that goes in that decision.

Defendant