August Thread: Goals, Winrates, Updates.

[Talking Poker]

Here's the thing... I don't care if you have $10 million in your bankroll. If SOMETHING (and it doesn't matter what) made you literally write down a "goal" of not playing in the $10/$20 NL game... then don't do it. It doesn't matter if your roll can handle it or if you aren't feeling challenged enough or if you are on a rush or if you are tilting or anything else. You set a goal that is 100% within your control. So meet it.

To use JD's analogy, if I made a goal to not drink for a month, you can bet your ass I wouldn't drink for a month. There would be a reason I set that goal, and whatever it was was obviously important enough for me to make a goal... so that would be that - no drinking. Even if I put myself in a situation where I was tempted, I just wouldn't do it.

Maybe it's self control, maybe it's maturity, or maybe it's just a fundamental personality trait, but I honestly don't understand how people can't NOT do something when they've made it a goal of theirs. Don't get me wrong - addiction (like a drug addiction) is different... but for something as simple as "don't play in a certain poker game," when you can't meet that goal for 30 days, I think you have to give some serious thought to finding out why... Addiction is the only thing that makes any sense to me. Other than that, I guess it could be laziness/indifference, but if that's the case, then why make goals in the first place??? They must have meant something to you for you to write them down.

[Boobie Lover]

There is your problem. Stop being so focused on the results and the emotional outlets that accompany this numbers game will not come with it. With this goal, you feel entitled to win that much money. If you don't meet it, you are a failure.

I'm sure that you are very competitive, and being a failure is not something you want to be. This competitve nature is really counterintutive to what makes optimal poker play. Competitveness says winning is everything, optimal poker play says just make the best decisions possible at each given interval. These two obviously counteract with one another on a fairly regular basis when playing.

Stop letting your bravado is getting in the way of making sound decisions, and you will probably very soon be a world class player.

[PShabi]

A car battery and nipple clamps.

[bdawg31]

I can relate to the competitive thing in a slightly different way. When i got that big WCOOP hit, i tried to move up a bit too high for my skill level. Instead of recognizing that fact, i got so competitive about succeeding that i spent to long until i dropped down to where i should have been. It wasn't a 'money' thing or a 'gambling' thing - it was all about BEATING a certain level.

I don't regret taking a stab at some of the things i tried. I regret letting my competitive nature override rational decision making. It wasnt me thinking "Man, I am just getting unlucky - if i keep going i will win" type of thing. It was me wanting to make myself good enough to beat the higher levels - and i just wasnt ready yet.

[JDMcNugent7]

awesome responses, thanks guys, i agree with all of u in different ways.

I think fungus hit the nail on the head showing that to get to where I am today my BR management wasnt the best. Back then I found out I could actually win more $ faster if i wasnt properly bankrolled for the game and I guess this thought is still in my head. I still actually feel like I'm missing out on $$$ I could be winning by playing 5/10 instead of 10/20.

I also agree with you guys stating if I make a goal I should keep it. The reason I made this goal is cuz overall I'm a loser at 10/20 and I would like to keep my losses to a minimum, until I am totally ready to be playing there rather than just taking shots. I guarentee I won't play another 10/20 hand the rest of this month.

I would say in full confidence that addiction is not what is bringing me back. I often just randomly without thinking about it go days without playing when Im real busy hanging out with friends, and I won't think twice about poker the whole time. Usually it actually turns me off to poker, and makes me realize how pointless it is in the whole scheme of life.

[lightfungus]

You know I ran into someone at Binion's who had just spent the last year of his life playing poker for a living when I was in Vegas. He was a good guy and quite good at poker; he had been busted out of the ME for which he had been backed, and claimed to play poker regularly with a few Miami Heat players in his home town of Miami. But he was talking to a chick and was saying how he had enjoyed playing poker but he just didn't have much to show for it...but I guess that goes for anything in life, and it's all a matter of choice.

[Talking Poker]

See bold above.

If you are a loser at 10/20, why in the world would you think you are missing out on money there by playing a game that you crush instead???

[lightfungus]

Cost/benefit analysis: Time spent playing 5/10NL gains him 1 unit per hour
Time spent losing at 10/20 NL -2 units/hour
Once he starts winning at 10/20NL +2 units/hr

he just has to make sure he starts winning after a while...no? Granted it depends on his long term goals, so if he wants to make 100k by the end of the year, maybe he shouldn't do this until the end of the year...

[Talking Poker]

Um... I guess. But let's simplify this a bit and use actual numbers:

If his records show he wins $100 per hour playing $5/$10 and he loses $20 per hour playing $10/$20, you tell me which "job" he should go to for the next 40 or 100 or 1000 hours.

Seems to me it's a no brainer.

[lightfungus]

Ok...well like I said it depends on how long it takes him to get to the level of winning he is at at 5/10...if he spends 100 hours playing until he gets to break even...then thats -$2000, and then it takes him another 100 hours to get to the winning level he is at in 5/10, which would be 2*$100, or $200/hours, but since it is a slow curve of growth over those 100 hours after the break even point, so thats $100/hour for 100 hours, or +$10,000.

So trying 10/20 for 200 hours netted him -$2000 + $10000 = $8000
whereas at 5/10 he made $100/hour for 200 hours or $20k, so there is a difference of $12k which is significant, but what if you did it over a 400 hour period?

5/10: 400*$100= $40k
learning 10/20 = 100*-$20 + 100*$100 + 200*$200 = $48k

So in the long run....

Of course it all depends on being able to beat the 10/20NL like he beats the 5/10NL

[JDMcNugent7]

i get ur point. but seriously, u think cuz ive lost $ overall in a Very tough and high variance game it means its a very simple decision to continue playing 5/10 and not 10/20?

Ya, I'm a overall loser at 10/20, but i dont think it means much. Give me a year and I'd bet by then I'm a significant Winner at 10/20. Like Fungus said, right now in the short term, ya its costing me $. But i dont care about the short term, I'd much rather lose a few thousand playing 10/20 now and improve to be able to beat the game eventually. Seems much better than grinding at 5/10 with no plan to move up. Also, I beleive sessions at 10/20 make my 5/10 game seem much easier.

I know ur trying to make a point, but is this serious? I mean this just doesnt really apply to poker or this situation at all. I have the ability to improve, its not like i get a fixed salary of -20/hr if i play 10/20.

In both cases you are making points for, the logic you are describing would be that I never should have even moved up from 1/2 NL , cuz when i first started 2/4 I got killed. So I really dont agree with what ur saying at all.

[Talking Poker]

If you don't get what I'm saying, you don't get what I'm saying. No biggie. At some point though, you'll realize that EASILY earning $x per month (x = $1000, $10,000, $50,000???) will be plenty for you, and it much more satisfying that having months where you struggle to win $100,000 one month, lose $200,000 the next, and so on and so forth. Especially as a college student. I mean, how much money do you NEED to make to live comfortably month to month?

But anyway, enough of that. The thing for me is this... When you come in here and say that your GOAL for the month is, and I quote:

Don't follow that up by taking said shots and the justifying it and saying you are trying to improve so you can make more money in the long run and blah blah blah...

Your goal wasn't to "Improve my 10/20 game." It was to "not play in the 10/20" game. And you failed. That's ok... people fail to reach their goals all the time... but when it's a goal that is THIS EASY to achieve, I just don't get it.

For example, I am now adding a goal to not play in the $10/$20 NL game this month too. And I guarantee I'll reach it.

[BrianSwa]

you have the same problem I have, I move up levels and try higher limits that im not ready for. The only difference is I bust out my bankrolls and you have managed to keep yours. You are better at stopping then I'am but the fact remains you keep trying to play levels you are not ready for.

I believe you can beat 10/20 [b]eventully[b] but for now you are not ready for it. You have alot of pure talent JD and what you should be doing is just play the level you can beat which is 5/10 and crush it till you are ready to move up.

you keep saying you can beat 10/20 but stop trying to force it and just let it happen when it happens.

[lightfungus]

He has a good point about stress, I mean its really not worth it at the moment...there will be plenty of other stressors.

[JDMcNugent7]

i just figured out i play like 1,71036520164 times better when i dont have a big BR at the site im playing at. I just keep cashing out about 1/2 my winnings to neteller and it keeps me in check, and i play alot better and dont be idiotic.

[sjay2k]

JD - I find this too. I figure it's a psychological thing, where I'm able to make better laydowns if the money seems more "real". It's weird.

Update: +7200 for aug.

[Boobie Lover]

Not that it was a particular goal of mine, but I am having the best month ever results wise for cash games this month. +10.5K.

[jaeh00d]

well seeing everyone is posting i am at just about +2,000 for the last 71 days of play. i know it seems like absolutely nothing guys...

but coming from someone who just a year ago cleared 50% of there savings account and obviously did have sorm form of a gambling problem.

to doing a lot of research on here, and picking the brains of all of you here i am proud to report such a big milestone in my poker game.

thanks to everyone

[Talking Poker]

Very nice. You too sjay.

Hmmmm... maybe I should play some cash games this month, since
i have yet to do so.

[MAYHEM45]

SO close.

[Reel Deal]

Getting close... man there's a ton of fish at Titan.

[JDMcNugent7]

its Really crazy how much better everyone is doing since they first joined this site. i honestly dont know where i would be if i didnt find this - as i was a Complete, Brokeass fish when i joined.

[jaeh00d]

i second that, when i first joined i had an attitude that i was the best and needed to no improvement.... 2500 less i realized i wasnt shit and needed to study the game...

between books and the site literally improved trifold....

thanks again...

jd but your improvement is like none other...

[Talking Poker]

I can't help but laugh at the people who think they are god's gift to poker - ESPECIALLY new, completely unproven players. I just don't get it. With everything else in life - even much less complicated things - people understand that they don't know it all right away and it takes a long time to become an expert. But with poker, Joe Blow scoops a few big pots and thinks he's unbeatable.

I guess it's really good that people think like that though, since those are the guys who end up making the winning players winners. If everyone was as good as they thought they were, no one could ever beat the rake.

[MAYHEM45]

From -2000 to +2000 in cash games this month. Fun little swing.

Oh yeah, and Im not doing too bad on the tourney front lately either.