morality question

[badblood44]

To be honest, there have been times that I've thought about this issue. But those times have been at the live poker games I play with friends. One example: There is a friend I've had for a while that is simply horrible at poker. He plays only the nuts and is readable to the nth degree. I've stolen pots from him when I know I can, and I've laid down hands when I know I'm beat. The other night, I felt so bad about taking more of his money, I just checked down a hand where I knew I had him.

On the other hand, online games are played with a bunch of strangers who I can't even see face to face. And frankly, many of them are jackholes in chat, so busting them is actually quite pleasing.

My overall philosophy has evolved recently. I guess I'm getting old and cranky, but I'm flat out tired of constantly paying the price for other people being stupid. In every day walks of life, I'm constantly forced to do extra work to account for other people's inability to do things right. And I'm so tired of it.

In poker, in the long run, the stupid people will pay the price for being stupid. And I like that. Granted, it's a long-term process, but Darwinism at the poker table will win out. So if you're just dumb as rocks and decide that you're going to play poker, well then, there is simply no room for me to pity you.

[Talking Poker]

This made me shed a tear.... it's just so.... beautiful.

My #1 pet peeve in life (in case anyone couldn't tell): Stupid people.

[MAYHEM45]

My dad taught me something the day I turned 18: When meeting someone for the first time, always assume they are an idiot. 9 times out of 10, you wont be disappointed.

[CardSharp]

A note on my last post here- This happen a long time ago, in my reckless years. I've since smartend up and don't even asociate with these people anymore, so please don't judge me on this. What if I had got caught? Then I would have been the second person to get my ass kicked that night, but im skilled enough not to get caught. And no, I did not donate it all to a local charity. I droped $5 of it in a childrens camp collection jar at Tim Hortons thogh

Also. I"d like to clear up the fact that I am not a cheater. I used to do alot of card tricks and the ability to cheat just kinda came along with that.

[melioris]

Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread. It has given me lots to think about. With the move, the new house (first time home owners!), the new job, family, the World Cup, and finding a good soccer league in Milwaukee, I am definitely taking a break from playing online for a couple of months. I suspect when/if I come back my game be stronger than ever. And the break means I got more time for TP.com.

PS-Despite all my liberal, touchy-feely “lets make the world a better place” tendencies, count me among those that hate stupid people. Maybe just our definitions of stupid are somewhat different.

[SirFWALGMan]

I think anyone who has played poker for a while has to ask themselves these questions. Night after night your winning money so someone is losing it. A percentage of those who are losing have alot of disposable income so it does not effect them. I think a smaller percentage have no self control and lose money they can not afford to lose. The question is should you care that you are taking money from this second group of people. It is hard to answer. I guess you should care but ultimately we are responsible for our decisions in life. I have made many bad decisions and paid for them, and many good ones that have helped me out. So while I hope people with gambling problems would get help I do not feel it is my responsability to make them get help by leaving the game or anything of that sort.

I have seen alot of degenerate gamblers, mostly at the blackjack tables, and nothing is going to stop them. I once was siting at Foxwoods and a guy came in dressed in McDonalds type garb and dropped several bills in fifteen minutes and left. I am pretty sure it was his weeks pay. While I hope he gets some help I would not boycott Foxwoods because of it.

If you are concerned about the morality of the game obviously you can quit. I know alot of REALLY good poker players who have gone pro and have had fights with the nagging though: Does Poker contribute anything to society, and am I anything but a leech. Everyone works out these questions there own way.

[Govman6767]

Don't get me started about this we'll be talking about smoking again ?
I got so much neg feed back on the last morality thread i'd have to blow half the forum just to get back in the green again

[ashmc2]

I respect you to the utmost Mel - you just get a little too deep for me sometimes with you impathy for all mankind. Peace

PS "I'm a Hustler Baby!"

[ashmc2]

Once in the not so distant past, poker was consider a bad thing. A sin to some. Now with all the media coverage professional poker players can finally raise their eyes up to meet their neighbors' and say with pride what they do for a living. And now ironically those peers are envious of the pros who no longer have that negative stigma about them. The dregs of society have now become our champions of nightly TV entertainment.

And my last point is a serious one.
I view taking the degenerate gamblers money in a different light than most of you do.
I am helping them by taking their money.
When does an alcoholic or any addict for that matter get help?
When they hit rock bottom, that's when.
I am these sad addicts 12 step program.
I'm doing it for them Mel.

So I ask everyone to heed my words and help these poor gamblers' souls. Take there money today.

I shall now pass around the collection plate. Give what you can. We like the kind that jingles but we prefer the kind that folds.

[CardSharp]

A great man once said "Suckers have no buisness with money, anyway"

[PShabi]

I know you've been waiting for me to post in this thread. I am, after all, the "moral barometer" for the forum. One word folks, one word:

GIMME

[Talking Poker]

BTW... Yes, this thread counts ()... just barely!
04-01-06, 04:19 PM

And yes, this post counts for it's total.

[melioris]

I have been giving a lot of thought to my feelings about the morality of poker, as well as posting like a fiend around here, while I take some time away from playing. It is a tough nut for me to crack. The whole free-will thing suggests that we are all responsible for our own actions and the consequences of these actions. I definitively believe in this philosophy, especially as I apply it to myself. Generally, I try to be more generous with others than I am with myself, so I don’t feel comfortable with a “fuck’em” attitude towards others. In the end, I cannot come to a satisfactory conclusion to the question of the morality of poker. And I am totally cool with that. That is one of the joys of human nature, exploiting the gray areas. Other than boozing more than I should, I don’t have a lot of vices. I am ok with poker being a vice for me (if it is actually is a vice). I really appreciate the thoughts that you all posted on this topic.

I think the core of this issue has been my approach to poker. Is it just for fun? Or should I manage it as an investment of time and money? Should I treat it like a second job, an income source? Or is it just something that I enjoy and I happen to make some money at it? Should I be pulling out my profits or building a bankroll and playing more serious? I vacillate through all these questions and it really messes with my head as I try to justify the time I put into poker. During this time away for reflection I have come to a satisfactory answer to these questions. I am going to treat poker like an investment, and I am going to try and increase my bankroll to move up. My plan that at the end of each month I will pull out 50% of my profits for that month. Theoretically my bankroll should grow, satisfying some ambition, and I should get consistent reward for the investment of time and energy. The fact that I enjoy the hell out of playing is just a bonus.