Cheating at the USPC?

[Quint]

Disclaimer: This entire story is comprised solely of 2nd and 3rd hand information and deductions on my part. Take it FWIW.

My buddy from work came in my office with lots of entertaining stories from his weekend in AC. I won't bore you with all of them, but this one struck me as, at least, curious.

He was playing 1/2 NL at the Taj Friday night and the $1000 NL USPC event was going on behind him. At some point during the night he noticed Men Nguyen playing at the table closest to him, but on the other side of a glass wall.

About 1 AM Men, who has been drinking pretty heavily during the whole event, gets irate and is standing, pointing, and yelling at two of the players at his table.

The next morning my buddy is back at the Taj playing 2/5 NL and the dealer is talking about how the guys that finished 1-2 in the tournament last night were brothers and that they had finished 2-1 in an earlier event (Note: the dealer also stated that these (unspecified) players had also been banned from Foxwoods). From what my buddy had seen the night before he interpreted this as Men accusing two players of cheating.

After he told me the story this morning I checked the tournament results and it turns out that Men and Ut Nguyen (both of Bell Gardens, Ca.) finished 1-2 in this tournament and 2-1 in the 9/25 ($300) tournament.

Now, in no way do I beleive that Men the Master needs to cheat to win a tourney, especially a $300 or $1000 tourney, nor do I know if they were the accused parties and wether they were accused of soft-playing each other or outright signaling/collusion. But, having never played in a live tourney, how big of a concern is this? Obviously, they both had to play pretty damn good on their own to even make it to 2 final tables, but once they got there how much is implicit or outright collusion likely?

[jimmym]

I feel some some collusion would be likely in a situation like this, poker as indeed any situation in life that involves either $ or/and challenge and which then involves family and or close friends brings out something that virtually all humans cant resist, when in situations when a family member or close friend is involved its part of our instinct to then bond together and root or even help our close ones become our nearest challenge.

This doesnt stop that fact that these people have a skill in reaching were they are and perhaps its never pre-planned, I mean how can you plan an outcome so far in advance and then keep to plan in really a game which requires a percentage of luck, but it happens and when it does people will talk and make accusations.

I would wager in many a live tourny many players have entered with there friend and made a pact that if and its a big if they get to the final stages they will play in such a way that benefits them each.

[Zybomb]

True.. but there is a huge difference between "not playing against each other" and using signaling to reveal each others cards (if that was the case)

[jimmym]

Ohh yes i agree this would be pure cheating and not acceptable if it was the case, but I feel in this case people are assuming this is happening because of the situation of them being family and them taking1/2 earlier.

BUT YES SIGNALLING IS CHEATING.

[Kurn]

Now, in no way do I beleive that Men the Master needs to cheat to win a tourney

You are aware that Men the Master has been accused of cheating (usually chip dumping teams), for quite a while now. IIRC, he's even been caught on at least one occaision passing chips to another player during a break.

[Quint]

johhny.jpg


I did not know that!

[Talking Poker]

This isn't the first time I've heard his name and the word "cheating" together either. I've heard from very reputable sources that quite a few WSOP tourney chips were found in his hotel room in 2005 (I think it was 2005).

Go figure.

Again - completely secondhand information here. Just passing along what I've heard.

[2Tone]

“There are stories about Men’s people slipping their tournament chips off the table during bathroom breaks and dumping them to other players on the team; that’s cheating,” maintains a former World Series of Poker champion. “Some of Men’s tournament wins were tainted because people dumped to him. We’ve been unable to prove this, but it’s public knowledge in poker circles. There’s collusion in which he plays partners and has his guys squeeze players out of key hands. They work out signals and do all kinds of dishonest things.”

While this player is obviously no fan of Men’s — and, it’s worth restating, the allegations have never been proved — he nevertheless allows, “You still have to give Men credit for being among the top-ranked players every year. Even if he gets a little bit of help, he still needs to be a damned good player to win as much as he does. Plus, he’s an excellent teacher who,” by financially backing his students, “puts his money where his mouth is.”

The most blatant accusation against Men centers around an incident that took place in Mashantucket, Connecticut, at Foxwoods Casino. Men was there with his guys for a poker tournament. As is their norm, they arrived with coolers full of steak, fish, rice and Coors. They shared a suite and set it up with hot plates, steamers and a fridge. After a team member overcooked dinner, the room filled with smoke and fire alarms went off. Hotel workers rushed inside and asked Men and his guys to leave while they dealt with the situation. The fire was put out, but rumors spread that tournament chips were found in the room. If true, that’s a terrible infraction of poker-tournament rules. It means that players on Men’s team had been pulling chips from the tournament as their likelihood of getting knocked out became more and more of a certainty, and they then provided those chips to the group’s winning players, who could surreptitiously supplement their chip stacks.

Men denies this completely. He insists that he got thrown out due to the fire, not for cheating. (Foxwoods has confirmed this, but, as one player puts it, “Of course, they would; the last thing they want anybody to think is that their tournaments can be corrupted.”)