Gotta love this ...

Dodoubled · #1 09-07-06, 04:36 PM

Not so much the hand, but the conversation afterwards:

PokerStars Game #6203355858: Tournament #31453079, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/09/07 - 15:17:45 (ET)
Table '31453079 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: kjjs (1540 in chips)
Seat 2: CTEACH (1170 in chips)
Seat 3: Glen1000 (1275 in chips)
Seat 4: Blade428 (1850 in chips)
Seat 5: MonkeyCat (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: fredmo (1440 in chips)
Seat 7: 33french33 (1385 in chips)
Seat 8: JEUX D PLAGE (1040 in chips)
Seat 9: DoddyPSU (2300 in chips)
JEUX D PLAGE: posts small blind 15
DoddyPSU: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DoddyPSU [Js Kh]
kjjs: calls 30
CTEACH: folds
Glen1000: folds
Blade428: folds
MonkeyCat: calls 30
fredmo: folds
33french33: folds
JEUX D PLAGE: calls 15
DoddyPSU: raises 30 to 60kjjs: calls 30
MonkeyCat: calls 30
JEUX D PLAGE: calls 30
*** FLOP *** [Tc Ad Qh]
JEUX D PLAGE: checks
DoddyPSU: checks
kjjs: checks
MonkeyCat: checks
*** TURN *** [Tc Ad Qh] [2h]
JEUX D PLAGE: checks
DoddyPSU: bets 210
kjjs: raises 1270 to 1480 and is all-in
MonkeyCat: folds
JEUX D PLAGE: calls 980 and is all-in
DoddyPSU: calls 1270
*** RIVER *** [Tc Ad Qh 2h] [2c]*** SHOW DOWN ***
DoddyPSU: shows [Js Kh] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
kjjs: shows [2d Ac] (a full house, Deuces full of Aces)
Blade428 said, "omg"
kjjs collected 1000 from side pot
JEUX D PLAGE: shows [Jc Kd] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
kjjs collected 3180 from main pot
DoddyPSU said, "wow"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4180 Main pot 3180. Side pot 1000. | Rake 0
Board [Tc Ad Qh 2h 2c]
Seat 1: kjjs showed [2d Ac] and won (4180) with a full house, Deuces full of Aces
Seat 2: CTEACH folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Glen1000 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Blade428 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: MonkeyCat folded on the Turn
Seat 6: fredmo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: 33french33 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: JEUX D PLAGE (small blind) showed [Jc Kd] and lost with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 9: DoddyPSU (big blind) showed [Js Kh] and lost with a straight, Ten to Ace

OK, here goes (this conversation happened between a couple of meaningless hands, BTW):
DoddyPSU said, "talk about **** luck"
Blade428 said, "I had something like that happen to me last game"
DoddyPSU said, "can't say i fault the push" (Well, I couldn't, especially if he thought we were on draws. I mean, he had to think we were on draws, right?)
DoddyPSU said, "I think everyone played the hand fine" (Diplomacy, people, it's all about diplomacy.)
kjjs said, "i thought one of you guys hade the straight i didnt think both of u had it" (Say WHAT????)
DoddyPSU said, "did you think we had it made, or did you think we were on a draw?"
DoddyPSU said, "because if you thought we had it made, you def. didn't want to push there"
DoddyPSU said, "you were a big dog"

Is anyone else out there, "knowing" they're dominated in a hand, going to push in that situation and hope to catch a miracle? And then afterwards, talk about it and say, "Oh, yeah, I knew I was dominated, but I wanted to push anyway, even though I still had a very playable stack,"?

(I went from chip leader to busting in 8th, BTW; pushed my last 500 or so chips in after the flop on a nut flush draw and didn't hit.)

Reel Deal · #2 09-07-06, 05:10 PM

What's with the baby raise from the BB w/KJo?

And yes, that guy's a donk and got lucky.

Dodoubled · #3 09-07-06, 05:36 PM

I'm not sure. Sometimes I think I undervalue KJ in a tournament situation; I know it's a much better hand to play in a situation like that than, say, in a cash game. I guess I'm still trying to figure out the right way to come into KJ from the blind. Advice?

Boobie Lover · #4 09-07-06, 06:14 PM

Never, ever, ever, ever min raise out of the blinds with any hand, especially a marginal one like KJ. All min raising does is build the pot out of position and allow early limpers to limp/reraise. Just call the SB.

BTW, what is your reasoning for min raising with KJ out of the blinds? This is not towards detriment for you, I was just curious why people do this.

Talking Poker · #5 09-07-06, 06:27 PM

KJ sucks.
Min raises from the BB suck.
Put the two together and YUCK!

Other than that though, you can't hope to get your chips in as any bigger a favorite that that... And he's full of shit saying he thought you had a straight.

Dodoubled · #6 09-07-06, 06:36 PM

It was a feeler bet, and an easy fold on a reraise. You're right, though ... in hindsight, I probably should have just called the SB.

Talking Poker · #7 09-07-06, 06:52 PM

If you think about it, a min raise form the BB does NO "feeling." (Ignopring the SB), if Players A, B, and C are willing to call one bet with 1, 2, and 3 bets in the pot, they are CERTAINLY going to call 1 more bet with 4, 5, and 6 bets in the pot. You asked them to call the same amount, but gave them pot odds twice as good the second time around. No one should ever (or would ever) fold to this, so you've gained no information, haven't narrowed the field. All you've done is doubled the size of the pot.

See?

Dodoubled · #8 09-07-06, 07:12 PM

Absolutely. So the moral is, either call the SB there or, if I'm going to raise in that position, grow a pair and actually put forth a "real" feeler bet?

Talking Poker · #9 09-07-06, 07:17 PM

Well, you were actually in the BB, so all you had to do was check. But yeah, if you want to raise, raise. Make it AT LEAST 4x the BB (I'd prefer 5). With KJ though, just check.