No-limit, Pot-limit cash games observation

[Penguinfan]

I don't claim to be any good at either PL or NL cash games, but I will play now and then. I just don't understand why people raise like crazy pre-flop at the $25 or $50 buy-in tables. At the $25 buy-in table if you got really good cards, and you raise the hell out of the pot and everyone folds, congratulations you just won 75 friggin cents with your good cards. If it's a bluff then your risking alot of chips for that 75 cents. It just doesn't seem like it makes any sense to do this at all, what is the benefit? Steal 75 cents? Waste good cards? In a tournament I understand picking up a round of blinds, but in a cash game I will take my chances that AA gets cracked rather than waste them for 75 cents.

Am I way off base here?

[Gutzz]

Sometimes if you're UTG or UTG+1 it might be good to raise more because there're so many people behind you who might call.

like, imagine if you bet 4xbb with AA UTG and some guy in MP called with 55 to catch set, then guy next to him saw JTs and decided to call, and then the guy after that had some other lame hand and wanted to call since he was getting better than 3:1 on his money and would have position on all the other guys. Then the BB looks down and sees some junky hand and goes 'what the heck it's only 3bb more to see flop.

What's the result? You got AA and are out of position vs a bunch of players who could theoretically have anything. Also, the pot is large so if the flop is coordinated you might have to bet it hard to push draws out, and the other guys might've hit the flop hard!

Essentially you can get into serious trouble if you only bet 4x in EP with AA and KK, since you're very likely to lose a lot on the flop/turn if someone bets, so it's often good to bet it hard PF to remove some of the draws a little.

Anywho, I have noticed a lot of people like to min bet or bet 3xbb with AA/KK UTG orUTG +1 in hopes of getting a reraise by JJ or AK. I think this's good depending on the tables, but of course is risky.

Cheers,

Gutzz

PS. I think the players who bet it hard PF do so because they either think someone will call it, or because they're afraid they'll overplay the aces and lose a huge stack.

[4Flusher]

Why I will raise and reraise before PREFLOP ... the table I'm playing at is a loose table and the players will chase ! I do it to get money in the Pot when
because on the Turn and river, many players wont chase so I need them to pay me before they fold ... in other words ,,, IN NL especially , it is the texture of the table that will sometimes dictate betting patterns. Late in a MTT I will raise every time I come in, especially when I see short stacks.


4Flusher

[eddo31]

the thing about it is, you have to play the same at the low buy ins as you would at a high buy in table. you cant think about it as winning 75 cents, you have to think of it as winning the blinds. there should be no difference in winning the blinds when they are .25-.50 at low limit party nl games, or if it is $25-$50 at the brooklyn park/blundeston ub nl games. i know the money is different, but if your whole strategy is to win the blinds, and then get up with that profit, you are playing way over your head.

no matter what limit you are playing at, you have to make correct plays. if it is to your advantage to raise preflop, then you should raise, no matter what the payoff will be.

[Penguinfan]

That all makes sense, just seems to me the idea behind NL cash games was to make a big score and 75 cents insn't it. I was watching a friend play 1 cent/2 cent where the max buy-in was $5, someone went all in preflop UTG with their 5 bucks and everyone folded, he flashes AA, well congratulations you made 3 friggin cents! I don't see where over the long haul 75 cents is gonna make or break a bankroll and I would rather gamble a bit when I have the best of it going in.

[Gutzz]

Just like to add another reason.

If the stacks are big[edit: deep], then often it's best to raise a lot, or not raise at all. But you can't be too obvious. Open raising 6x only with aces might make you predictable, and cause players to call with complete junk so they can bust your aces with 2 pair.

For the penny tables you'd be amazed how often players will call that all in with JJ or TT or QQ. heck, even AK will call sometimes. --- Him showing what he had was really dumb tho... I never show strong hands, and only rarely show bluffs.

Cheers,

Gutzz

PS. El Diablo posted a hand of his a few months ago where he raised 9x UTG (or was it UTG+1?). It didn't make any sense to me at the time, but he explained his reasoning in a response. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle .

[badblood44]

One thing to keep in mind, at least on Party, is that you're MUCH more likely to be called by a moron than not. I'm never all-in pre-flop just trying to win the blinds, however. I agree that it can be a pretty dumb move. But there are those who do and often get called down with better hands.

[2Tone]

Perhaps it is a result of getting sucked out on too many times, and just wanting to win the hand right then and there. If you have KK/QQ/JJ are you going to raise a healthy amount pre-flop, to make that guy with Ax think about whether he wants to chance a Ace coming on the flop?

[jillaj]

To me it all depends on who your playing. I only try to steal blinds with a low pocket pair mostly. However with AA or KK I want them to play if i want to make any money. By them i don't mean more than 2 people though.