The TalkingPoker.com Forum  

Go Back   The TalkingPoker.com Forum > All Things Poker > General Poker Discussion
Register Blogs Arcade HH Converter Calendar

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-12-06, 05:18 PM
2Tone's Avatar
2Tone 2Tone is offline
WA's most wanted
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,800
2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points2Tone has between 1500 and 1999 Rep Points
Default Massive NYT article on online poker

Most in-depth coverage yet of the college-kid turned bank robber story that's been getting all the attention.

Most interetesting part for me came on page 6 of 7

"With Congress unlikely to pass any law authorizing federal oversight of our online activities, Internet gambling's near future appears as healthy as illegal downloading's. In the long term, the federal government's response is likely to resemble either its response to tobacco, with high taxes and more rigorous controls over marketing and access to young people, or to marijuana, a costly and mostly fruitless campaign to eradicate a demand-driven business by cutting off the supply."


free reg required.
  #2  
Old 06-12-06, 06:04 PM
New Guy's Avatar
New Guy New Guy is offline
Im so over her!!!!!
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Los angeles
Posts: 1,111
New Guy has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsNew Guy has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsNew Guy has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsNew Guy has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsNew Guy has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsNew Guy has between 500 and 749 Rep Points
Default great article

Thanks alot for that!!
  #3  
Old 06-13-06, 04:58 PM
Talking Poker's Avatar
Talking Poker Talking Poker is offline
Adminimus Maximus
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida Coast
Posts: 27,480
Talking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

This really is an excellent article... Probably the best I have seen on the subject to date (online poker and college students).
__________________

Got RakeBack?
27% at Full Tilt | 33% at Cake Poker | 30% at Carbon Poker
  #4  
Old 06-13-06, 06:08 PM
Boobie Lover Boobie Lover is offline
Banned
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,795
Boobie Lover has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsBoobie Lover has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsBoobie Lover has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsBoobie Lover has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsBoobie Lover has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsBoobie Lover has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsBoobie Lover has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsBoobie Lover has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsBoobie Lover has between 1000 and 1499 Rep Points
Default

It would be better if the author didn't make online poker out to be some big, bad evil monster that must be destroyed.
  #5  
Old 06-13-06, 06:29 PM
Dodoubled's Avatar
Dodoubled Dodoubled is offline
Shark
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 531
Dodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep Points
Default

I think the article had the potential to be excellent for a number of reasons:

1.) I've been playing the game for a while and I was actually intrigued by what the author said. Great storyteller.
2.) I've heard the Hogan story before (it first ran in a paper I used to work for, The Morning Call, which was referenced) several months ago. It's a fantastic story and a good lede, if only for shock value alone.
3.) It does a great job of illustrating the federal government's naievete to the issue of online gaming, and the quagmire it finds itself in when it comes to legalizing or illegitimizing it.

But the story falls flat where it counts most. Here's why:

1.) It's chock full of hasty generalizations.
It seems like everyone who does a story about college kids and online poker uses the Moneymaker tale in a hugely irresponsible way. Man throws up 40 bucks. Man wins online tournament. Man with nothing but a bag on a stick and a dream ventures out to Vegas, falls face-first into a pile of cash and wins WSOP Main Event.

Bullshit.

The Moneymaker story is good, but all these retellings seem to lose sight of the fact that he was probably a really, really good poker player (amateur or not) before playing in the Series. Yet, in nearly every single story I've read, he's made to sound like a guy who rolled into the 7-11, bought a lottery ticket and hit. It takes luck to win the lottery, sure. But it takes a lot more than just that to win the WSOP.

It's no wonder so many kids out there throw their money at the tables. They look at poker as a "get-rich-quick" scheme when in fact, it's exactly the opposite. They read books about how to play "winning" poker, when in fact, they should be reading books about how to make correct judgments. How many college players REALLY understand implied odds?

Fuck the Moneymaker story. What kids really need to hear is the McNugent story. How an 18-year-old kid goes from penny games to a $50,000 roll in a year's time. Hmmm ... let's start with smart bankroll management and work up from there. Most college kids can't even balance their checkbooks. And they're sitting at the fucking poker tables??

2.) Speaking of hasty generalizations, if I were a housewife who didn't know a thing about poker and I read that article, I would think two thoughts:
College kids-Poor, Defenseless Victims
Poker-A Disease, not unlike the Plague. Or An Addiction, not unlike Cigarettes, Alcohol or Cocaine. (The story itself didn't dumb down the game. It simply dumbed down the cause-effect scenario).

This is completely the author's fault. Instead of offering any new, real insight on the matter, or more importantly, an opposing viewpoint outside that of the corporate talking head, he simply regurgitates facts that have been passed around the block. This story would have been quite good with a few quotes from some of those students who play the $1,000-buy ins, as opposed to the friend-of-the-friend who knows them. These are my questions for the populous:
How does a college kid finance such a high-stakes game? Do they borrow from the rents? Do they break knees? Do they really build their bankroll from scratch? If so, tell me the story.
Which ones are the really good players, and why, and which ones are the smoke-and-mirror fish on the run of their lives? How can veteran players tell the difference?

Don't just rehash tired facts. Tell me something new, something intriguing. Get Moneymaker on the horn (wow, he probably feels like shit considering he's apparently singlehandedly responsible for the wasting away of America's youth) and have him dole out advice for youngsters who want to play the game. Explain to them that maybe, just maybe, poker isn't the problem. It's the laziness of the newcomers who are unwilling to learn how to play the game right, who don't know the difference between pot odds and potluck.
__________________
"I need to catch a couple of killer, monster hands and have two or three callers."
  #6  
Old 06-13-06, 06:30 PM
Reel Deal's Avatar
Reel Deal Reel Deal is offline
I'm on a boat
 

Join Date: May 2005
Location: NE Fla
Posts: 6,651
Blog Entries: 3
Reel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsReel Deal has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

That's what I was thinking too... the Congressmen that want to ban on-line poker are going to make this kid their poster-boy and this reporter their P.R. manager.
__________________
GO GREEN!!! GO WHITE!!!
  #7  
Old 06-13-06, 06:31 PM
Dodoubled's Avatar
Dodoubled Dodoubled is offline
Shark
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 531
Dodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep PointsDodoubled has between 500 and 749 Rep Points
Default

Dammit! It took Boobie Lover 23 words to say what I tried to in 5,000,000.
__________________
"I need to catch a couple of killer, monster hands and have two or three callers."
  #8  
Old 06-13-06, 07:27 PM
Talking Poker's Avatar
Talking Poker Talking Poker is offline
Adminimus Maximus
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida Coast
Posts: 27,480
Talking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

LOL... true... but I liked your post. Very valid points.

So.......................... why don't you go write that article that you described? I mean, literally write it. Then submit it to ESPN.com, CardPlayer, whoever, and see if anyone picks it up. Who knows - it may even make it's way to the AP.

I guaranteed it will be published here.
__________________

Got RakeBack?
27% at Full Tilt | 33% at Cake Poker | 30% at Carbon Poker
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2004-2008 TalkingPoker.com