Busted bankroll - seeking advice

[mrpotto]

I'm sure this is a familiar story to some. Today I lost my bankroll and I'm at an on-line poker crossroads. I'm relatively new to hold em' - about a year under my belt playing low stakes hold em' NL mini tourneys with my buddies and over the last four months online at party poker. To date, I've lost about $1,000. General strategy is to load in about $100 and play $1/$2 6 player ring games with some $11 and $22 single table sit n' gos mixed in. I recently had my BR up to $500 but the last week or so has not been kind and once again I'm busted. I know that my initial bankroll isn't sufficient to be toiling in the $1/$2 games but I tend to find I couldn't stand the lower limits because absolutely noone folds (alot better at $1/$2) and I was constanting getting big hands broken.

The other piece of it is the time I'm spending playing pp. I read that to some on-line poker is a lot like being addicted to crack and that's where I'm at. I find myself daydreaming about how I played hands (good and bad) in work meetings, at home, etc. I also find myself wanting to leave a social situation so I can get back to my pc to play poker. My wife and kids have been pretty tolerable but its been noticable to all of us.

So I've decided to (try) to take some time off and regroup. Any advice on dealing with the addictive nature of on-line poker would be appreciated.

Also, I'd like to hear from the regulars on what games they find to be most beatable. It sounds like there are a lot of NL cash game players here. Has anyone been able to tear up the lower limit short-handed ring games? If so, what strategies have you employed. I tend to do better in the sit and go's but like the action of the cash games (crack again).

On strategy- Generally I use the short-handed strategy that is described in Phil Helmuth's play poker like the pros. Basically starting hands are "black jack" hands (i.e k,10), any pocket pair and A,x. I realize this is probably much too loose for someone playing with not enough bankroll. Would I be better suited playing any top ten hands and folding the rest?

Also on fishing. Is it recommended that you hang in there when you have two suited cards and you flop two more? Same with open ended straights. Remember I said I play 6 player games so small flushes tend to hold up.

How about when you have a gut shot straight possibility? Sometimes I'll call the first bet when its only $1 to see 4th street. If I hit great, if not fold. Although if its a big pot sometimes I'll hang in there hoping to hit a big pot (pot odds).

I know I have rambled here but would appreciate any responses. I'm trying to read as many books as I can and watching some DVDs to try to get better. I realize BR building can be grind.

Thanks, Chris

[Boobie Lover]

First, I would recommend reading some books. Small Stakes Hold 'Em is a must, and I really like Weighing the Odds in Hold 'em also. Another very good source of information can be found from (especially the Abdul Jalib ones). Although these resources are more suited towards full ring limit play, the general concepts in them apply to all hold 'em games.

After you have completely read the books, its time to get some poker programs. You have to have Poker Tracker if you take online poker seriously. Poker Ace Hud also is a great program to have.

Then once you have read the books and purchased the programs, I would recommend that you create a Neteller account (if you don't have one already) and put away $300 in there. I'd suggest that you solely dedicate yourself to .50/1 full ring games while also bonus whoring like crazy until you have a reasonable bankroll. Playing up to 3/6, you can increase your BB/100 greatly just by taking advantage of bonuses. Go over to bonuswhores.com and read the 101 guide for more details on how to do this.

And if you go broke playing .50/1 full ring games with a 300 BB bankroll, just give up poker forever.

[eejit101]

i would suggest if u put in $100, not playing $11 and $22s. you need to win a high percentage of these to make money, and not go bust. if you have a bad day, then your gone again.

Stick $300 on, play $11s and some 0.50/1

[drewjax]

On strategy- Generally I use the short-handed strategy that is described in Phil Helmuth's play poker like the pros.


This is your first problem, seriously!!

[thrash1294]

take a week off.. try to forget poker.But i think you were palying above your bankroll. You play limit or no limit?

[2Tone]

I’d suggest that at the moment you need to less focused on poker strategy, and more worried about the role that poker is playing in your life.

As you seem aware, gambling – including poker – can very easily escalate into an addiction, which appears to be the case in your situation. If you were addicted to crack, and it had cost you $1000, and was damaging your performance at work and relationship with your wife, you (hopefully) wouldn’t be posting about how to best cook crack rock, or where to score. You’d be posting on advice on how to best get clean.

I’d suggest you need to quit playing poker for a lengthy amount of time. Six months, maybe more. Take the programs off your desktop, and unsubscribe from the mailing lists. The harder this is to do, the more it indicates how necessary it is. If you need help to do so, don’t hesitate to get it.

When and if you decide to return, you need to constantly be evaluating not just how you play the game, but what impact it is having on the rest of your life.

I sincerely wish you the best.

[Talking Poker]

This is much more along the lines of what my response was going to be. When I read the indications of a gambling problem, followed by questions about gambling.... eh.... Tone is right - you need to address the problem first.

I feel that I can speak from experience here, because when I first got into online poker - well, about 6-9 months after I got into it, I was playing a lot and I was starting to wonder if I had a problem. I needed to know, for my own well being, so I decided to quit for one month. And I did. After 3 or 4 days, I hardly missed it and knew I could safely return, but I had promised myself I'd quit for a month, so that's exactly what I did. I honestly think this is good advice for anyone who thinks poker might be becoming too big of a part of their life. Oh, and when I returned, I had my biggest rush ever, just so you know. I came back totally focused and started killing (ironically) the 6 max limit games.

Anyhoo..... I'm not going to answer the specific poker questions you posted, but Boobie's post was great. As for 6 max specifically, we have a LOT of GREAT posts on this site about 6 max hands. If and when you are ready for it (and I'm torn on if reading/studying poker should be allowed during the break), dig through the "How Should I Have Played This?" section of this site. And I mean really take your time and process all the info on each hand and the discussions that follow. You can't NOT become a better player if you read through as many of those threads as possible. If you're looking for 6 max limit specifically, do a search to narrow down the results.

GL to you. I hope to see you around the forum in the future, but if it's not for another month or two, that would probably be for the best.

[Talking Poker]

I thought your name sounded familiar.... just did a quick search of your old posts and found this:


I stand by what I said the first time. Poker isn't for you. You need to avoid all forms of gambling all together. Forever.

Quit for your family.

[melioris]

Ok, first I would take some time and examine why you play. Really look at your motivations and figure out why you play. Once you have a good idea of why you play and what you are hoping to get out of playing, it will help decide what action you should take.

After reading this post and the post that TP linked, it seems to me that you like to play and find it fun, but also have a some problems with risk management. Without constant attention, this could totally ruin your life. No shit. And it seems like you got it pretty good with a lot to lose, wife, kids, friends, home, etc.

2tone may have offered the best advice for you. Just stop it all.

If this is something you are not going to do, then you know you have a problem. The problem is the escalation. Maybe go cold turkey for 6 months. EVERYTHING. And if you can do that, maybe then, check with your wife, and make this deal with her. No more online playing, but once a month you will host a $25 buyin tourney (or max $25 buyin cash game) for your friends. Get yourself a set of chips, invite your friends over, and have a great time. The money is enough that it will make it exciting, but not enough to get into trouble. And it will be fun as hell. But take 6 months off completely, evaluate why you do it, and if you find it difficult to be truthfully with yourself, or the real reasons you gamble are fucking insane, don't do it.

In the mean time, read this

I recommend checking out this thread. Read what I posted in it. I have a wife and kids and reread this post often. Fucking up your family life is really easy and something that needs constant care to avoid.

Good luck-and tonight, check on your kids as they sleep. When shit is hard for me, or I got to make a difficult decision, checking on my kids as they sleep always gets me in the right frame of mind.

[mrpotto]

I'm evaluating all the good advice I've received. Thank you. I've made it through day one with no on-line poker. I went out with my wife and friends last night and had a great time and never once thought about leaving early to play pp (I did however think about leaving early to have sex with my wife which is perfectly healthy IMHO for a 42 year old!). I found myself sucked in back in December after my blackjack binge loss and was able to take 3 weeks off without missing it. Although my Dad passed away around that time so I was too distracted anyway.

Thing is I feel like I'm a decent poker player and I'm an accountant who has a decent grasp of statistics/math, etc. Thats been frustrating since haven't been able to kill the low limit games. I know --- we all think were Doyle Brunsons. I also do reasonably well in live games - low stakes generally. I plan to still play these as we play a couple times a month and here I play for the social aspects more so than for the gambling aspects.

I will take PP off my work pc immediately as it was impacting performance there. I don't know if my personality will ever make it reasonable for me to play online again. Time will tell if I can resist.

Thanks again,
Chris

[PShabi]

When you're asking if you should "fish" with an open-ended draw or a 4-flush, and you're talking about "chasing" a gut shot because it was only $1 WITHOUT mentioning pot odds or at least how much $$$ was in the pot at the time, it shows you aren't as "decent" at poker as you thought.

[mrpotto]

To pshabi

Yes I am aware of pot odds and wouldn't throw another $1 in if it was just me and one or two other players in an unraised pot. I did say in my post that I "might" hang for a gut shot in a bigger pot. Are there programs out there that calc instant pot odds while playing on-line?

Also FWIW and related to my first post which TP reposted as a reply in this one, I never did go back into blackjack after I got thrashed. I did remove the blackjack icon from my setup and never even throught about going back. I convinced myself that if anything could possibly be rigged on the internet, that on-line blackjack (one on one vs. party poker with my losses going directly to pp's bottomline) was a prime candidate. So maybe there is some hope for me in maintaining gambling discipline.

[holdemstewart]

ya, that blackjack shit got me too, i highly doubt its rigged.its real easy to just click on them $100 chips to try and double up to break even. but after you break even you think your indestructable, I was smart enough to leave after losin $10. I really feel for ya man, and I hope you get this taken care of quick. As for the home games, Thats probably alright as long as it doesnt lead to "I can just put my home game profits online". GL dude.

[ashmc2]

I haven't read anyone else's responses yet so i don't know if someone has already given you this same advice. Quit poker and save up for the crack. Just joking. But in all honesty, if you don't get it all under wraps buddy, you could lose your job, possessions, or even your family just like if were crack. Gambling can become an addiction. I know, I have a two family members that let slot machines run up all their credit cards, spend the retirement, refinance a home that they had paid on for almost 30 years, plus made them go bankrupt.

First of all, I'd like to say that i started out much the same way as you, although on a much smaller scale, bankroll wise.

This was part of my first post.

I started playing about 2 1/2 years ago. I started in free $ at True poker for 6 months or so. And like most starting out, I played everything down to Jx suited and every 3 spaced suited connecter. Then, my first poker epiphany; there was something called strategy. lol. I read Hellmuth’s book and found Ultimate Bet and get this, a tighter No limit game. I started on UB in free $ and stayed there until I got sick of listening to the little run-mouths that get on at 3:30pm. You know to whom I refer to. The 13 year olds that just got home from school and are getting a good jumpstart at a chair at gambler’s anonymous. I talked the ol’ lady into $25 bucks. I made it about 4 months on the .01/.02 tables. I bought back on for another $25. I made it only a month. I took 6 months off. I dropped a fifty into my depleted account. Slowly I dwindled this bankroll down to $9 and decided I needed a new angle. I started a poker journal and started tracking what I lost on and what I won with. I made it back up to $30. I started reading everything I could get my greedy little hands on. ...

I'm not trying to say that i'm a winning poker player now, I still think it's too early to see this trend yet. But i think there are a few key things you could take from my first post.
1 - I took 6 months off (that's how much time I personally needed to prove to myself that I wasn't addicted and that I could stop if I so chose to do so,) to get my bearings. You probably should take a little off to prove to yourself as well as to your family, that this is just a pastime.
2 - I always stayed well within my bankroll and allowed experience to carry me up in stakes. I now have a $800 bankroll and i am still playing $25 NL to allow for poker's natural swings. Sorry, but your reasoning for playing $1/2 is addled. (Players playing all kinds of junk and staying with shit no matter the raise.) This is just your current excuse to play above your bankroll and skill level. The next reason will be to recoup your losses. "This way lies the darkside." Your not past the cut off for these sort of moronic players at $1/2.
3 - Read, Read, Read. Ask questions. Helluth's book only has one chapter about NL, and even that chapter is partily about pot limit. This forum is an excellent place to read and learn. You are growing anytime you can interact with your learn material and get other perspectives. I'm not trying to kiss these guys asses around here, but they are a well of info. They Bobby Fisher the hand histories, delving deep into not only the results of the hands but the concepts of how and why the hand played out the way they did.

These key points should be priority one. Learning the game through knowledge and experience. Don't think your a good player, let your game prove to you that you are, through a slow and steady progression up through the ranks.

PS. Don't chase when your down. It's never the right decision.