Flopping a straight draw in Limit

MathBabe · #1 02-08-06, 10:37 PM

I need advice playing a straight or flush draw when I'm in early position.

Here's my hypothetical:
I've got Ah3d in the small blind. Five others call before me (this is low-limit, obviously) and I call. The flop comes 2dQh5h. I have four cards to a straight that isn't the nuts, and a lot of yahoos to act behind me with goodness-knows-what.

I figure I only have the four 4s as my outs. Do I:

a) Check and hope that somehow I have the correct pot odds when it gets back to me?
b) Raise, and if so, why, and is this what's called raising "for value"?

Boobie Lover · #2 02-08-06, 11:17 PM

Check and hope is your only option.

If you raise, it is not a very unlikely scenario that you will be reraised, making your play moronic.

Talking Poker · #3 02-09-06, 12:56 AM

Check/fold (unless the math is there to call, which is unlikely). I don't see how you could check raise in this situation, ever.

MathBabe · #4 02-09-06, 10:14 AM

I wasn't suggesting a check raise, just a straight raise based on the fact that I've got what seems like a good drawing hand. I'm going to think about the math for this a bit later on - how likely it is that I make my straight without a scare card coming up.

Just to be absolutely clear, then, Lee Jones says I can call in the small blind with any Ace, even unsuited. That means I'm first to act after the flop. I want to flop an ace with no straight/flush possibilities or pairs on the board, right? Ideally I flop two pair, and everything else I check and fold.

Sorry if this is obvious, but I think I've identified this "any Ace or King from the small blind" business as trouble for me.

PShabi · #5 02-09-06, 10:41 AM

I'm confused. By "raise," do you mean "bet?"

How is four outs a good drawing hand?

MathBabe · #6 02-09-06, 11:35 AM

Ugh, yes... I meant bet. I'll just shut up on this one now.

Talking Poker · #7 02-09-06, 01:09 PM

That was what was confusing me too. You said you were in the SB and were considering raising, so I assumed you meant a check raise after someone behind you inevitably bet.

Typically, a gutshot straight, especially a non-nut one, is not a draw you want to be chasing. There are extreme circumstances where it's ok, but these usually involve a preflop raise and quite a few callers in order for you to have the right math to chase you "maybe" 4 outs. Even if you hit your Ace, you're probably still going to be behind, so I wouldn't even count that as an out.

You completed the SB with a weak but reasonable holding and then you missed the flop - time to let it go.