Is this considered a BAD Beat or not?

[rookette22]

PokerStars Game #3540128573: Tournament #17566199, Hold'em No Limit -
Level V (75/150) - 2006/01/05 - 11:34:29 (ET)
Table '17566199 2' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: livetofish1 (1330 in chips)
Seat 3: Rookette22 (870 in chips)
Seat 7: EspoOne (2800 in chips)
Seat 8: white smoke (4810 in chips)
Seat 9: Freddy Foo (1900 in chips)
livetofish1: posts small blind 75
Rookette22: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Rookette22 [Qh Th]
EspoOne: calls 150
white smoke: folds
Freddy Foo: calls 150
livetofish1: calls 75
Rookette22: checks
*** FLOP *** [Js Td Qs]
livetofish1: checks
Rookette22: bets 720 and is all-in <<--had 2 pair; possible boat or straight. bad call or just bad luck?
EspoOne: calls 720
Freddy Foo: folds
livetofish1: folds
*** TURN *** [Js Td Qs] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [Js Td Qs 5c] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Rookette22: shows [Qh Th] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
EspoOne: shows [7c Kc] (a straight, Nine to King)
EspoOne collected 2040 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***

[Gordogg]

It sucks but not a bad beat. He was ahead pre flop. Then he gets an open ended straight draw on the flop. Hitting an open ender isn't considered a bad beat.

[Govman6767]

See my thread "Not a Bad Beat"

I would not classify this as a bad beat when you only have 600 chips or so left and someone with 2600 flops and open ended str and a "possible" overcard there are going to call you regardless. Phil Gordon might lay it down
Phil Ivey might lay it down but ... Jimbob Delaniey and Micheal veccicco
and Orville Redinbocker are going to make this call

You have to see it for what it is no matter how you bet the turn or the river you were going to lose there was no way to play this hand an win....EXCEPT
Your on the big blind semi-short tacked against 2 callers which is real scary BUT IF YOU PUSH PREFLOP maybe K7 folds and a pair of 6's calls you win

Hindsight is 20/20 but the way it looks the ONLY chance you had to win this pot is all in preflop after the flop no fancy play or anything would ever take this one down.

[Zybomb]

its a loose call sure, but he's risking 1/4 of his stack to eliminate a player and even if he loses he is still in 2nd place... depends how much gamble you have in you.... as far as pot odds alone, no he shouldnt of called

In this case your all in bet was good, bc of your chip stack (any reasonable bet would committ you to the hand)-- you tend to overvalue hands in general though... and seem to think you need tyo over ebt them to protect them (when they may not be ahead at all) and you need to be careful of this. Something tells me if you had 2100 chips you would of gone all in also.

[rookette22]

But how do you calculate who was ahead at the time? I mean I had chance for a boat and him a straight; I would think I was ahead at the time; since I had already 2 pair over his possible straight.

Is this all about counting the odds? Well I don't know how to count them up that well but let me give it a shot here, please be patient with me; I'm just trying to understand the poker odds business.

I had QTs; QTJ on board; Well the way I see it, I have 4 outs.

The other guy had K7s;all I calculate for the this is 8 outs?

Which is more outs than I have; which hmm ...guess he does have the upper hand. But mine looked so good. lol argh...

Don't know if I'm even doing this right HELP! lol

Edit: Oops was mixing up two hands lol Ok he only has 8 outs for the straight; is that correct?

[Akverno]

You have a heck of a lot more then four outs, you only have four outs to improve your hand. Your hand doesn't need improvement, you just have to hope he doesn't hit one of his eight outs for the straight or running two pair or trip sevens. After the turn he has eight outs, you were the favorite after the turn. However most people wouldn't call it a bad beat because if you both went all in pre flop he would be like 60/40 to win the hand if i remember right, at best 55/45.

[Zybomb]

He has outs, you have REDRAW outs. Like AK just said, you are already ahead you dont need to hit outs! You only calculate his outs, he has roughly a 32% chance of hitting his straight... and even if he does you have an 8% chance of redrawing on the river

[HEwong]

its 34% chance of catching 8 outer on either the turn of t he river. 17% chance of catching an 8 outer on the river

[rookette22]

So I was ahead right? That's what I thought at first till Gordogg said the other guy was ahead.

So about this bad beat, maybe I don't quite get it yet; but if I was ahead and I had top hand at the time isn't it a bad beat for me?

[HEwong]

not a bad beat he flopped the open ended str8 draw. and it didnt cost himn to much to cahse that . so nto a abd beat sucks but not a bad beat

[Zybomb]

you were ahead roughly 65/35... its not a bad beat because a bad beat amoungst other things, is when a very unlikely winner comes out (10% or so)

If I have AA and you have Ah Kd

The flop comes Ad 4c 7d and you move all in and i call

The turn comes 8d and the river 10d, you win with a flush... thats a bad beat!

[rookette22]

Ok I might look foolish again, but only way I'll learn anything is if I say what I'm thinking whether it's stupid or not. Which in this case it might be but here goes nothing.

So the bad beat in this case is that you had the stronger, better hand and he went all in and won it by getting lucky, with his only chance for a flush. Is that it?

[HEwong]

kinda.or if the catch runner runner suits or cards on your hand all in

[Zybomb]

Who went all in doesnt matter... the main thing is when all the money went in a SIGNIFICANT underdog, came back to win the pot (and usually this also involved him making a bad decision)

[Zybomb]

what?

[rookette22]

Thankyou so much teach!

I think I learned enough for today, now got to read up on 'Pot odds' for tomorrow's lesson.

[Gordogg]

He was ahead PRE flop. A King is better than a Q no?

Here is a trick to find out the percentage of you hitting your hand. On the flop times your outs by four. So if you had four outs to improve to a full house, 4 outs x 4=16% to make your hand by the river. He had 8 outs to hit his straight so 8 outs x 4=32% to make it by the river. That's with two cards to come. On the turn with one card to come, you times your outs by 2. So if you didn't hit your full house on the turn, 4 outs x 2=8% for you to hit it on the river. These percentages are rough estimates, but they are close enough to the actual percentage that it doesn't really factor into your decision. Hope this helps.

[rookette22]

Hmm...you're right too. Preflop, King was a better hand than mine. If there was nothing on the board for either of us he'd have beat me with his high king.

Thanks for the easy lesson on percentages; hadn't reached that chapter yet, guess I could skip it now.

[HEwong]

dam zy 3 bars already wtg.

[Talking Poker]

Rook - go play with this for a while:


And open that poker book that I know you bought and read about "counting outs."