Is mucking wrong between friends?

[rookette22]

Here's the thing; I was at a real money table with a friend of mine and it was only the two of us that were left. I called, he folded and I mucked. Now he's upset

He says I shouldn't have mucked my hand, not between friends. I told him I usually muck when people don't call to see my hand. He thinks I bluffed him out of that hand cus I mucked. I had a pair of Jacks, no biggie but still a pair.

Is it really that bad to muck a hand if you're playing with friends?

[FatRufus]

I don't think so. You are friends but in that game your opponents by all showing your hands he can easily pick up your tendancies and you will be losing lots of money. I muck with friends all the time, its totally up to the player and how comfortable he feels after winning the pot. If your bluffing alot and keep showing your bluffs, then the majority of the time you'll get called and screwed. It can work vice-versa but i think its risky

[PShabi]

So, he'd be "mad" at you if you bluffed him? Is that what you're saying?

That'd be like playing Checkers and getting mad at somebody who jumped one of your shits.

[rookette22]

Oh yeah he'd be so upset with me if I bluffed and took away his pot

See, that's one of the reasons it got uglier. After I mucked and he basically told me off, I felt bad so I asked him what he had. He then asked me to tell him what I had first. I was worried just in case he had a bigger pair and if so, he'd have thought I stole the pot from him; which wasn't the case at all. So I didn't tell him what I had.

It's not as if I had nothing and planned a bluff. I did have, after all have a pair of Jacks.

[AceJackSuited]

Mucking is not wrong between friends. The way I look at it no matter who it is if they do not have the balls to call they do not deserve to see. The only was is if they show you there hand and it was a good lay down then you should show.

[Talking Poker]

First, this is very much poker related, so no need to post it in the off topic section.

Second, your "friend" is an idiot. If he's going to get upset about this sort of thing, don't play with him. Imagine what he would do if you check raised him! *gasp*

Lastly, of course you don't need to show your hand. You don't want everyone else at the table knowing how you play, do you?

[Zybomb]

I play in a cash game one a week or so with my friends. There is usually 8 of us playing. We are all friends, but we all know THERE ARE NO FRIENDS AT THE POKER TABLE.

Moves done at this FRIENDLY game

Faking folding your cards to your opponents river bet to see if he reacts a certain way

Holding the call chips in your hand and saying "aright what you got" without throwing them in to an opponents river bet

These are both a little over the line IMO...but the person said 'what its decption right? you check raised me, thats deception too.... if you take 1000 dollars from me are you gunna give it back? No, it's not a friendly game

When 2 or 3 of us go to the local poker room, its a different story. We always avoid each other, never bluff, etc

PS: You can know all of the startegies and techniques in the world, but you cannever be a good poker player without that killer instinct.

When I had my last BIG night at the poker room, A girl at the poker room had had a few unfortunate incidents that night. She folded (correctly imo) the best hand 2 times and got to see two other players each with weaker hands show down. She played very good strategy wise, but was too easily intimidated by others and their aggression

I had Qh10h, limped in as did 3 others and she made a standard raise, I smiled at her and said "donation" as I called, 2 others did as well. The flop came an ace and 2 low cards, but brought me a flush draw...she bet and I called, the others folded "donation huh?" she said. (I had over 1500 in front of me on a 1/2 table at the time) and gave me a sad look.

She checked the turn and I checked behind her for a free card. I missed on the river and she checked again. I kinda of felt bad for this girl, who was playing very smart, but just being bullied a little too much...I was about to check back and tell her I missed, but then I was like hold on....what the hell am I here for, if Im gunna play like that I should leave the table right now. I fired out a fairly large bet...she shook her head and thought...finally said I know Im beat but I call and turned over AJ

I told her good call (I was kinda happy for her in a way) and she took down the pot

Point is at the table you need killer instinct....without it your toast

As far as your actual question, hell no...why would u show a hand unless you wanted to (I show hands in home games sometimes just for the hell of it...and a bluff once in a while too)

[rookette22]

Not planning on playing with him again; he won't even talk to me.

I know I don't need to show my hand but sometimes through friends it's a sign of respect. (Well that's what he says anyway) I've played many times at the play chip tables and people that have become my friends now, through PS, have actually gotten offended if I raise them when we're one on one at the table. Maybe I should have just shown my hand, people like that sometimes.

You know; I try to do what a good Hold'em player is suppose to do, trying to better myself and then something like this happens and you say is it worth it. Can't believe he'd let something as silly as this get between our friendship. That is just so dumb! *and sad too

[Talking Poker]

These people are bad players who will never be good players. Go read Zybomb's post again and muck your cards whenever you want to (which should be most of the time).

I mean, do you think a table full of pros (who are all very good friends with each other) playing for 100s of thousands of $$ just check it down every hand, or never bluff or always show their cards at each showdown? That's absurd.

[rookette22]

It's not the same thing, they're poker league friends. It's different when you play with a 'friend' friend. It's like what Zybomb was saying, he felt bad for the girl until he remembered what he was there for. But that girl was a stranger and yet he still thought about his next move.

Maybe it's different for a guy on guy friends game. I guess for a girl to muck her cards, it's like a slap in the face for the guy. Don't know what else to think. I mean he's taking it so bad and it's just so silly.

You want to know something else? It's happened to me many times before, where a friend would muck his or her cards, and I'd be thinking; I bet he cheated me out of that pot or she mucked, she must have bluffed. And yeah, I feel bad. But we're here to play poker not get in touch with our friendship feelings.

Money could either make the world go round or ruin a friendship.... by me

[420Smurf]

Heck no don't need to feel bad about showing your hand or not showing your hand, poker is poker and friends are friends and when you sit at the poker table everyone must know that .

[Zybomb]

I think you're slightly missing the point... the thing is there are no friends at the table. You are all competing for each others money... if you win it, you arent going to give it back are you? If so why are you playing in the first place? But if not, then it just shows on the table there are no friends. TP is a nice guy, he set up the tournament on stars for us...when I won did I

I played in the $10 TPF tourny last month. In that tourny, I don't know anyone, so they wouldnt fall into the 'friend friends' catagory you described, theyd fall into something similiar to your 'poker league friend' catagory

Don't wanna burst the bubble, but I check raised, BLUFFED and although I showed ALOT more cards than i usually do (bc it was a fun tournament) i still didnt show bluffs and mucked many hands as well... so if everyone here hates me now sorry

TP is a nice guy, he set up the tournament on stars for us...when I won did I transfer him his $10 dollars back NO...not cuz I dont like the guy, but Im playing against him in this tournament, thus Im trying to knock him out (effectively losing his 10 dollars)

Now if me and him were to enter a big MTT lets say and happened to be at the same table, itd be a little different. Id try and avoid him as much as possible, Id never bluff him, and if I reraised him preflop itd mean QQ KK AA (unless we were at a final table or something) This isnt saying Id roll over to him, or not play my hands, but Id try not to butt heads....thats simply bc here Im not playing against him,. im hoping both of us get to the final table... then we can go to war

PS :tell ur friend to suck it up, you had him the whole way, if not you outplayed him, buy him a box of tissues nd tell him to pick a new hobby if he's this sensitive

[Robbr25]

Gotta pay to see !!
Now with friends, I might let them know later,
but at a table it gives others more info than needed.
(not to mention I have show off always, gotta pay to see)
I try not to go heads up against friends online.
Not that I don't mind takin all the TPF players money mind you.

[Nikita]

This guys is an idiot. I would have mucked too and if he got upset, I'd tell him how stupid he's being.


Rob and I have hosted a home game. It was NLHE tournament style. Near the end, the only three people left were myself, Rob and my best friend Jason (also a guy). Did I start showing my cards? Playing a weaker game? NO! My goal the whole game was to take everyone out. First I busted Jason, then I busted Rob. And I sooooo didn't show any hands that ended up mucking! Were either of them mad? No! Both actually congratulated me. Had either of them got mad at me, I would be the first to call them idiots.

[Robbie Robb]

Yeah, that was a great night! When it got down to heads up action there was mucking left and right. In fact, I don't think a single person showed a mucked hand all night. There were 7 of us.

We've got another one happening on the 7th of Jan. and I can guaran-damn-tee you that I won't be showing hands that night either. People want to put me on a bluff? Let 'em. But they damn well better have the money to back up their thoughts I'm lookin' for a win on the 7th.

[riphed]

Zybomb said it best - there are no friends at a poker table. Of course you don't have to show your cards. That would be silly.

[wildcard1433]

I completely agree with robbr. I personally feel that if I don't call until the showdown, I don't deserve to see the other player's cards, no matter how close I am to them. I have noticed some of my friends do occasionally show each other (if there's only two left) without calls, but with my group of poker buddies, by this time seeing the cards once or twice more will not help you get a read. So the moral is don't feel sorry.

[FatRufus]

By all showing your cards, it's very easy to pick up someone's tendancies and your reads become easier to make. When playing for money, the word friend is thrown out of your vocabalry. Your playing for money not for kicks. Mucking is perfectly okay and no offense but your friends an idiot for believing otherwise

[polko]

Nah, I think you did the right thing. You have to play the same way when you're playing against friends as you would play against a stranger. I doubt they would change the way they play for you, so why do that for them? Good luck with your games!

[kdekl]

i think this is rediculous. first of all, i dunno what kind of friend you have that gets worked up over something so trivial. secondly, muck whenever you want to. you should muck most of the time, anyway. you shouldn't change the way you're playing just because someone is your friend. think about it this way, if he was willing to put the money into playing the game with you, he shouldn't bitch about losing it. whether he sees your hand or not, and whether you bluffed him or not.

[dmopiela]

It sounds like you are a much better poker player than your friend. When you sit at a table you become opponents and all friendships end. Money is on the line and you want to walk away with more than when you sat. Why give out information not just to him but to the other players at the table? If he was a good poker player he would understand this. Good luck.

[MathBabe]

Hey Rook...

I agree with the things other people have said, but I don't know if it really helps you out of your situation. The reality is that he's upset and telling him "you don't get it" isn't likely to calm him down.

If you can get his attention, I'd suggest telling him that you didn't want the other people at the table to know what you had. Any time he wants to know in the future, you'll tell him, but after you've both left the table, when no-one else can hear. If he'll listen you can explain about the reads and why it's bad. Tell him you're working on being a better player, and this is one of the things you've learned about home games. Heck, refer him to the site!

MathBabe