Don't give freecards

jdiana86 · #1 11-12-04, 09:27 PM

For all the begginers out there, one piece of advice I can give you is too not slowplay or try to trap with your hands. Only in rare situations is it OK to do this. First of all, if there are two of the same suit or two cards seprated by 5 or less gaps, you are possibly making someone a straight/flush on the turn or river. I can count two times in the past few days where I gave a free card and someone hit a set on the turn. Luckily, one of these times I was able to get away from the hand, but the other busted me in a tourney that I could have easily gone on the place in the money. Remember, when you have the goods, push with them. Aggression is the key, at least in no limit.

Defendant · #2 11-12-04, 09:40 PM

Something like that just happened in my tournament: blinds 10/20, im on the BB with 56 spades. UTG+2 raises to 40, to callers, I call, flop 667 rainbow. Original raiser raises out 90, I flat call, other 2 go away. Turn is a blank, I raise, he calls, river is a blank, I put him all in ( I had him WELL covered)...he flips over AA.

Had he raised more than minimum raise, the 56 would have hit the muck.

Defendant

SirFWALGMan · #3 11-13-04, 01:08 AM

I totally agree. Even in limit it is bad. If you flop a boat or straight with no suits matched you can slow play a little. Usually I will try and raise on the turn and take the pot there in limit.

ChipFish · #4 11-13-04, 01:32 AM

Better to win a medium to small pot then to lose a big one isn't it?
Kind of goes with my A-A folding arguement doesn't it?

Chutups · #5 11-13-04, 01:39 AM

I've learned this quite quickly, I count how many times I tried to extract extra money and having another player outdraw me with a free card. I rather just take the chips in the pot.

BlackCoffee · #6 11-13-04, 01:46 AM

Yes I agree. You should bet your hands and make people pay to draw.
Draw are quite hard to make and in the long run the 'fish' will be paying you off.

I've heard people on-line say that you should always check-raise the best-hand which i thought was peculiar.
I think this is a very very bad tactic and I see people pay for it all the time, then they whine

BlackCoffee.

junYUN · #7 11-13-04, 04:12 AM

well obviously you can't always check-raise...someone could just check right behind you.

sjay2k · #8 11-13-04, 04:32 AM

I think you should only ever give freecards if you're two cards ahead of your opponents, or you're a certainty to win the hand. for example if you hit high trips on the flop or turn, even if you're opponent has two-pair, they will need runner-runner to beat you. Then when you push all-in at the river, they will call your "bluff".

Another great time to give free cards is when you flop a boat or the nut-flush and other players are quite-obviously drawing. Nothing sweeter than seeing four cards to a straight or flush when you flopped a full-house. Well maybe something sweeter, but I'll keep this post clean

BlackCoffee · #9 11-13-04, 08:29 AM

I absolutely agree. I just mentioned my story because this guy on my table insisted that you should check-raise ALL the time. He would check-raise top pair on the flop, or he would bet a flush draw to the river, hit it, then check-raise.

He never bet unless he was bluffing. Then he would whine about getting sucked out. And most of the table was agreeing with him (mostly because he was losing his shirt)

He was interesting to say the least.

BlackCoffee

Penguinfan · #10 11-13-04, 10:32 AM

Here's what pisses me off about people chasing, especially in limit, you bet to protect your hand and they chase reguardless of the pot odds and finally catch on the river only to raise you, yea I know thats poker, but you MFer, you knew you were beat the whole way, caught against the odds then raise me. This is why I bet the whole way and if a flush or straight card falls on the river I just check even if they check first, I mean they are only going to check-raise you if they suck out and they aren't calling the last bet if they missed the draw so you really don't lose any equity in the long run by checking here.

sjay2k · #11 11-13-04, 01:09 PM

LOL yeah I agree. Tonight I was playing limit, got AA in the small blind. Pot was raised (all in by the short stack), I re-raised and the BB called. Flop comes K-blank-blank. I bet... called. Turn comes Q. I bet... called. River is 7... I bet... re-raised...I call. He had Q7o. ARHRHRHRHRHRH... horrible play.

TajaUk · #12 11-13-04, 01:19 PM

Thats why if i ever wanna play a hand, I always raise the BB so they dont catch me up for free.

hackers238 · #13 11-14-04, 01:19 PM

Yeah I need to stop trying to be so tricky... especially in freerolls. I was just in the pokerchamps freeroll and I hit trips on the Flop. I checked it, and it was checked around. Then a third club came on the turn, and my turn bet wasnt enough to drive out some idiot with pocket nines and a club. Of course the river came another club and I lost the hand to the flush.

Shoulda pushed harder on the flop.

eddo31 · #14 11-14-04, 04:51 PM

all of the advice here has to be taken lightly, i think. every different situation deserves a different play, and ruling out slowplaying strong hands is a bad idea. the problem is generally that people slowplay weak hands, and then they get pissed when someone hits their straight or flush. you cant slowplay top pair, top kicker, or something like that. adjust your play to what the different possibilities out there are.

slowplaying can cost you money, but at the same time if you let someone hit top pair when you have a set, or let someone draw to a flush when you have a boat, you will get paid off. playing very strong hands fast will probably lose you just as much money in the long run, but people do not realize this because they win the pot.

every dollar on the table is equally important, so not maximizing your wins is just as bad as making a bad call and losing a hand.

Defendant · #15 11-14-04, 05:59 PM

One rule to slowplaying anything below a boat: NEVER slowplay with 2 to a flush on the board unless youre sure the other person isnt drawing to a flush (i.e. has a made hand)

Defendant

jdiana86 · #16 11-14-04, 07:25 PM

Yes, slowplaying can be effective and it is easy enough to know when to use it. When you have a made hand and you are letting your opponent draw to a lesser made hand. And of course never slowplay bottom full's.

GeoffM · #17 11-15-04, 08:56 AM

I only slow play in certain situations. In ring games I will rarely slow play anytime at all. In tournies, I like to slow play when I am chip leader or at least have everyone covered on the hand in question.

badblood44 · #18 11-15-04, 12:05 PM

Is SSHE, Ed Miller recommends never to slow play (the book is about Limit Hold 'em).

Basically, most people will chase and pay you off. You should take advantage of that and hammer the pot even with a made hand. The extra size of these pots will compensate for the times you get out drawn by the morons who should have folded pre-flop.