Why you don't learn poker from TV Event Coverage

BlibbityBlabbity · #1 12-07-05, 09:35 AM

Rookette asked if watching TV was a good way to learn and improve her game during the TPF Tourney last night.

IMO, I have learned a lot from TV poker, but I can't say that it has helped me much in the low limit games I play. The TP tourneys are one instance where some of the same "type" of plays happen online.

Some reasons I can think of why TV poker is misleading:

1) It is shorthanded It is very dangerous to an aspiring player to take what they see on TV to generally (he raised with A3os from first position, I should too). Shorthanded it is not possible to wait for the best starting hands (due to blinds), so you have to loosen up your starting hand requirements.

2) They may have reads from earlier in the tourny These players have been playing together for some time before gettign to the final "TV six". So, say from even the final 3-4 tables they will be playing at the same table and seeing play from full table to SH. The better players will be categorizing, watching, and taking mental notes of who will lay down a hand, who raises a lot, who bluffs, who raises with marginal hands, etc, etc... So when someone calls an all in with KQs and flips it up as if they KNOW they have the best hand, they might have a good reason for that call(where, sitting at home, a TV viewer might get the wrong idea and think "hey, I will call all ins with KQs too").

3) You are only seeing the dramatic hands The producers for these shows edit out the "raise, fold, fold" hands. They would be very interesting to see, IMO, but would make bad TV for the action crowd.

In general, a lot of poker advice starts with two little words...it depends. Poker TV takes out a little bit of the insight into the elements that make up good poker decision-making, IMO.

The suggestions at the table last night were to read books and practice. watching poker on TV can be entertaining, but don't take it too literally. Books (the better ones- there are a bunch of threads on which ones are good here) can be a great help to your game, if you are committed enough to it to sit down and read them.

Talking Poker · #2 12-07-05, 01:26 PM

Nice post.

I was the one last night that suggested that "learning" how to play poker by watching poker on tv was a bad idea. Probably just about as bad (maybe even worse) as learning how to play by playing with Fake money!

Experience is the best teacher, but it is an expensive one as well. You can save yourself a LOT of losing sessions if you read a few decent poker books first, and actually apply what you have learned. That's important too.

kmb13592 · #3 12-07-05, 05:33 PM

I disagree, watching poker on tv can be very helpful. Of course experience, first hand that is, is the best way to become better but you can learn a lot by wathcing tv. Especially when it comes to odds and knowing the quality of hands.

rookette22 · #4 12-07-05, 05:34 PM

I will take both your advice and find of those suggested poker books.

Do you think it's cheating if I play at a table and someone coaches me on the side? Cus I would think that's a good way of learning.

Hawt · #5 12-07-05, 05:46 PM

If it's play money then no one cares. If you are playing a real money game though, and say talking to someone like TP through AIM (or yahoo in your case) about the hand, I would think it would be cool as long as he isn't sitting at the same table with you, since that would be collusion. (or registered in the same tourney if thats the case).

Anyone know for sure? I wouldn't email support about this though, because if it does turn out to be cheating then you could get fucked over for it.

BDMK · #6 12-07-05, 07:39 PM

i learn(ed) a lot of (NLHE tourney) poker by watching the 'big ones' on stars: the nightly scheduled (usually 9:10pm est) $100/$150 buyin tourneys which attract a lot of the top notch players, including pros.

IMHO highly recommended.

omahilo · #7 12-07-05, 08:08 PM

watching online players such as JohnnyBax, Gank, T Soprano, Sheets, etc to just name a few on stars play some tournies is a great way to go. Those guys are just so much better than the random online tourney player.

Windbreaker · #8 12-07-05, 10:05 PM

If you watch tourneys on tv you can learn a lot. It won't make up for experience playing...but there are things you can pick up on. If you watch celebrity poker, there's very little you can learn from the players, but you can learn stuff when Phil Gordon comments on bets and such....which most players should already know. The FSN Full Tilt poker tourneys are good events to watch because they show every hand and has Howard Lederer to commentate.

As an example, for the latest Monaco episoid, he explained a situation where Phil Ivey should move in with just about any hand for a good raise.

Basically to 3 paid and 4th gets nothing. Chris Ferguson got crippled and had less than one big blind left. Lederer said that's the perfect opportunity to raise and steal blinds because the second and third place guy can not call your all in without monsters. If they fold, they will finish at least 3rd....if they play there's a chance they end up with nothing or face a very difficult decision.

Another thing that I learned was from Daniel Negreanu in tourney play - there's opportunites to pick up a full pot when you're expected to pick up half the pot.

Eg. A9 vs AJ. And the board makes AQ55. This is a situation where even if you're a slight underdog with A9, you can make it difficult for others to call by moving in.

Most times the things you learn are more subtle than the obvious.

Talking Poker · #9 12-07-05, 11:51 PM

Certainly. But there are small little tips that you can learn. To learn the fundamentals, you need to read a book. Or two or three.

I can watch a 2 hour episode of celebrity poker and maybe, MAYBE if I am lucky get 15 seconds of advice that I find useful (to me) from Phil Gordon. I could spend that same 2 hours REREADING Harrington, SSHE, etc, and learn much, much more.

That's the point.