Fun with AA...

[Talking Poker]

Funny thing is, I got them BOTH to put their chips in as pretty big dogs, and they BOTH sucked out on me.

Critique away.

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FullTiltPoker Game #312717239: Table Arcata (6 max) - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:17:39 ET - 2005/11/28
Seat 1: PotRooster ($170.40)
Seat 2: JefferyRN ($150)
Seat 3: ueatoutalot ($551.85)
Seat 4: Rogue23 ($350)
Seat 5: BluffingRizzo ($165.60)
Seat 6: Sonny88 ($435)
ueatoutalot posts the small blind of $2
Rogue23 has 5 seconds left to act
Rogue23 posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Rogue23 [As Ah]
BluffingRizzo calls $4
Sonny88 calls $4
PotRooster has 15 seconds left to act
PotRooster folds
JefferyRN calls $4
ueatoutalot calls $2
Rogue23 raises to $24
BluffingRizzo calls $20
Sonny88 calls $20
JefferyRN folds
ueatoutalot: 3 to 1
ueatoutalot calls $20
*** FLOP *** [8d Qd Js]
ueatoutalot checks
Rogue23 bets $95
ueatoutalot: one more
BluffingRizzo raises to $141.60, and is all in
ueatoutalot: come on
Sonny88 has 15 seconds left to act
Sonny88 calls $141.60
ueatoutalot folds
Rogue23 calls $46.60
*** TURN *** [8d Qd Js] [Kc]
Rogue23 bets $184.40, and is all in
Sonny88 calls $184.40
Rogue23 shows [As Ah]
BluffingRizzo shows [Tc Ac]
Sonny88 shows [Kd 7d]
*** RIVER *** [8d Qd Js Kc] [4d]
Rogue23 shows a pair of Aces
Sonny88 shows a flush, King high
Sonny88 wins the side pot ($368.80) with a flush, King high
BluffingRizzo shows a straight, Ace high
Sonny88 wins the main pot ($521.80) with a flush, King high
Rogue23: lol
Rogue23 is sitting out
BluffingRizzo is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $893.60 Main pot $524.80. Side pot $368.80. | Rake $3
Board: [8d Qd Js Kc 4d]
Seat 1: PotRooster didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: JefferyRN (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: ueatoutalot (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Rogue23 (big blind) showed [As Ah] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 5: BluffingRizzo showed [Tc Ac] and lost with a straight, Ace high
Seat 6: Sonny88 showed [Kd 7d] and won ($890.60) with a flush, King high

[thrash1294]

So you raised 5x the big blind correct? I would try 12x the big blind next time.
Its hard to lay down aa after the flop. That is a bad beat,but aa is only a pair,You gotta make em pay to see that flop

[X-Longshot-X]

I agree with thrash here, a bigger raise can ensure that u dont get sucked out on as much, u might not win as much in the long run but u wont lose as much either....

[Talking Poker]

First: 24/4 = 6. Not 5.

Secondly, Yes, it's hard to "lay down" AA after the flop, but I was ahead when all the money went in. Typically, I don't think one wants to lay down the best hand in this situation, yes?

I wasn't expecting K7s to call a 6x BB raise preflop... I understand you guys are saying it would have been better to bump it to 10x and pick up the blinds and calls, but I don't think I agree with that. MOST of the time, I take down a monster pot here by playing the hand like this. This just so happened to be one of the times when the gutshots and flush draws got there...

[JDMcNugent7]

new guys here - dont look at results only - look at the play - if u look at it when the money went in - u will see he got Both ppl to put ALL their money in as underdogs- which means this play worked almost perfectly - the end result wasnt perfect- but the betting process and everything looks pretty flawless to me.

also- 12x BB with AA is just too much at anything above .05/.10 - I'm sure it works there but $2/4 is a diff. story

also TP - u tryin out NL now or wut ?

[Talking Poker]

I play it now and then to mix things up. I was playing 15/30 (and a bit of 30/60) and getting my ass handed to me by the uberdonks - suckout after suckout after suckout (plus horribly missed flops cobmined with getting called down by 4th pair, etc).... When that happens, I like to take a break and switch it up and play a little NL, where I can pay to make them chase with their trash and where bluffs actually work. Short handed limit is still my best game, but I do ok at NL too. I finished this session right about even, so I did ok on the other table...

As for them putting all their money in as underdogs, the flush guy had reasonable odds (I think), but the guy who put all his money in with the double gutshot when I bet the pot on the flop - oh man..... he deserved to go broke. He hit his "outs" and still lost.

[johnp158]

That's asinine. Really. Do you hear yourself Yogi?

[Zybomb]

Once again what other hands would you raise 12x BB with here....

[BrianSwa]

If you dont maximize what you will win then thats just silly. Why overbet and get people out when you are a big favorite? Ok so you get sucked out now and then so what when the money went in you were favorite, thats all you can do in poker is get your money in when you are the favorite if you happen to get sucked out on oh well thats poker.

Nice hand TP bad results but well played.

[thrash1294]

Ok 6x the big blind sorry.Now my logic here again make them pay to see the flop.Also pocket pairs run, how many times that you have a poket pair and another players has them also. So you want that player paying to see that flop. and you suited cards folding. If I hold kq suited and you raise 5x the bb
I and a high percentage of players will call.So raise 12x and take the blinds and callers a win is a win.

Now Tp if you tend to win with your strategy I would not change it

[Zybomb]

.,,

[thrash1294]

that would be only aa and kk I limp on all others

[thrash1294]

Zybomb did you actually win an event if so which one?

[Talking Poker]

You do realize that if you raise to 12x the BB with AA and KK only, everyone at your table knows exactly what your hole cards are, right?

You also realize this is a HUGE disadvantage at the poker table (which is why we usually play with our cards face down and not face up)?

And lastly, you realize that this is 2005, and Zybomb won't be winning until 2006, yes?

[thrash1294]

So Zybomb is like the real picard then?
So everyone knows my cards? A poker game Is not the same people every session or table or site Or casino. If you have notes on me for that great its to my advantage.

But I am a donkey

[captain_festival]

i like to stay consitent when in a cash game..i think u did everything right and nothing wrong...what happened is POKER ...but in the long run playing the way u did will only produce good things...

[imso_ontilt]

Obviously here, you were playing with some donks. Your standard raise was good, you had 3 limpers on your BB and you bumped it up pretty nicely. $20 in the Pot, you raise the Pot. Still got two callers. Thats the problem in it of itself. With AA, or any big hand for that matter, you want to be heads up in the pot. You go from being generally 80-20 to being 60-20-20. I dont know about you, but would you want to risk your whole stack (hypothetical 3 way all in) on a 60% chance? Sure you'll be ahead, but thats not an overwheling favorite. With the flop of QJ8 w/ 2 diamonds, picture your odds of winning against your draws. With two other hands in the pot, you could likely put one on a flush draw, and possibly the other the gutshot most likely holding the Ten. So with two cards to come, you have to dodge 9 outs on the flush draw and 4 outs on the gutshot, 13 outs, 2 to come. Youre again about 60-40 favorite. You can always fold a pair of Aces, Aces are no guarentee, its just a pair. So, you may ask how do you play it different? Well the preflop raise was OK, to me, it was a bit of an overbet, but it worked. The flop is where you went wrong. With betting the flop hard, I would get the feeling that you Missed the Flop with a hand like AK and would be more liable to get a call from a gutshot or the flushdraw, because they might think they have more outs than they really do. A check-raise would indicate you are very strong, and the gutshot mightve dropped, but the flush draw looked like a gambler, so I would know hes not going anywhere. This is one of those hands where you cut your losses, take your medicine, and get back to playing your game.

[Talking Poker]

I like that analysis and I agree with most of it. A couple of notes though:

1. In a tourney, I don't like putting all my chips in as a 60% favorite, no. But in a cash game, I'll do it all day, every day. Especially against 2 opponents, which means (generally) that I'm getting 2:1 on my money, and I'm a 60% favorite to win. Think about that. Usin gyour numbers, that means for every $1 I bet, I can expect a return of .6 * 3 players * $1 = $1.80 in the long run. That's a good deal, where I come from.

Sure, there will be times when I get burned (40% of the time, in fact), but more often than not, I'm tripling my investment.

Again, in a tourney, this is completely different, because once you go bust there, you are out... but in a cash game, you simply reload and go back to printing your $1.80 bills.

As for betting nearly the size of the pot on the flop, I did it for the EXACT reason that you said I shouldn't have. I wanted to make the two draws you mentioned make a mistake by chasing and trying to make their hands. And I did. Had I bet less, it would have been correct for them to call... Poker is all about making your opponents make mistakes.

[ytock]

i was playing in a home game last night and both times i got dealt AA i ended up losing pretty big money : (

AA just seems to be hinderance rather then a help to me

[thrash1294]

aa a hinderence?
I'll take aa everytime .what hand overr AA would you like to start with?72off

[ytock]

haha ok so i was a little off the mark, but what im trying to say is that there not very good for me. now i know its probably due, in no small way, to how im playing them but whether im slowplaying them, big pre-flop raise (10-15 x BB) or even making a minimum bet i just cant seem to get a profit off them.

[thrash1294]

just dogging you out
aa is tough to lay down.