Look At This

[JDMcNugent7]

PokerStars Game #2837082247: Tournament #13822562, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2005/10/18 - 21:49:05 (ET)
Table '13822562 130' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Skoey24 (20710 in chips)
Seat 2: McNugent (36213 in chips)
Seat 3: clyjoe (17611 in chips)
Seat 4: SNRFAN (27484 in chips)
Seat 5: KaNyEeZy (19695 in chips)
Seat 6: wheeljohn (6570 in chips)
Seat 7: oneal7 (30064 in chips)
Seat 8: mountainice (6002 in chips)
Seat 9: zion1 (23666 in chips)
Skoey24: posts the ante 75
McNugent: posts the ante 75
clyjoe: posts the ante 75
SNRFAN: posts the ante 75
KaNyEeZy: posts the ante 75
wheeljohn: posts the ante 75
oneal7: posts the ante 75
mountainice: posts the ante 75
zion1: posts the ante 75
zion1: posts small blind 600
Skoey24: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to McNugent [7d 7c]
McNugent: calls 1200
clyjoe: folds
SNRFAN: folds
KaNyEeZy: folds
wheeljohn: folds
oneal7: folds
mountainice: folds
zion1: raises 3600 to 4800
Skoey24: folds
McNugent: calls 3600
*** FLOP *** [Ad Kc 7h]
zion1: bets 4800
McNugent: calls 4800
*** TURN *** [Ad Kc 7h] [8c]
zion1: bets 6000
McNugent: calls 6000
*** RIVER *** [Ad Kc 7h 8c] [6h]
zion1: bets 7991 and is all-in
McNugent: calls 7991
*** SHOW DOWN ***
zion1: shows [9s Ts] (a straight, Six to Ten)
McNugent: shows [7d 7c] (three of a kind, Sevens)
McNugent said, "OMG"
zion1 collected 49057 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 49057 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Kc 7h 8c 6h]
Seat 1: Skoey24 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: McNugent showed [7d 7c] and lost with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 3: clyjoe folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: SNRFAN folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: KaNyEeZy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: wheeljohn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: oneal7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: mountainice (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: zion1 (small blind) showed [9s Ts] and won (49057) with a straight, Six to Ten

This is the tourny ive been in top 18 for about an hour and a half- I KNOW i slowplayed it - CAN U BLAME ME? every call i made i was like okay theres no big draws he can have - nothing i have to push him off- lemme make all i can off this.

seriously has anyone seen this many bad beats in one day
look at all my bad beat posts lately - how am i supposed to win ?

[johnp158]

Not gonna flame, I don't think you deserve it, and I saw all the other beats. But surely you at least raise the turn. If he's on a draw you make him pay to hit it and if he has a pretty big hand he probably pays you off.

[JDMcNugent7]

but i played with this guy for over an hour - i was 90% sure it was a complete bluff, almost any other player i woulda been pushin back thinkin they had a strong hand like AK anyway and would get a solid call, this guy i was pretty darn sure would fold to any raise.

[omahilo]

you got greedy... I rather win a 15 or 20K pot than lose a 40K pot.

[Talking Poker]

Bingo. I understand the reason for the slowplay, but you're not allowed to complain about a bad beat when not ONCE did you give him an opportunity to fold.

[sjay2k]

I don't think the slowplay is that bad at all. The board isn't very draw heavy. But I still pop it on the turn.

[JDMcNugent7]

me 2- but think about it - I'd rather win a 40k pot, than a 20k pot, WHEN he has 5% to make his hand from the flop , and 12% for the river - It makes calculated sense to take that chance, in the long run trying to win the 40k pot would work out way in the +EV.

[Zybomb]

I pop it on the turn also... here's why. You had the mother of all flops. Youh it a set and an Ace AND a King also hit the board....there is a HUGE possibility that this player has hit top pair, maybe top two, etc. Meaning he is GOING to pay you off. This is one of the times I fast play, depsite the lack of logical draws on the flop

[JDMcNugent7]

RIght- but like i said - I played with him for an hour - I was 90% sure he was stone cold bluffing- and was right - it just worked out for him - if i can find it ill post the hand i won all his chips back on and prove to u ALL he does is bluff.

Any other player i would have been pushing back- figuring either way all the chips were going in, thinking any other opponent would have sumthin like AK or AQ or some other strong hand.

[johnp158]

Ok. That's fine. So you take the calculated risk, which, to you in this situation, is worth it. What this also means is that, when he hits, you have to say, "Well I accomplished my goal, which was slow-playing so he would give me his chips, and I lost. I could have avoided it, but I didn't."

And any complaining isn't justified, because of the risk that you could have avoided.

Again, I know this is after a long series of beats. But it seems that this is the kind of situation you want to avoid after a long day of bad beats. If you have the chance to take down a nice pot AND avoid tilt, isn't that better than making a bigger gamble and risking getting really pissed off?

[JDMcNugent7]

I dont get really pissed off about that stuff or go on tilt - i did end up finishing 5th in this, so im not gonna make a too aggressive play to avoid tilt since i dont feel i really ever tilt anymore.


I guess i can't complain , but i still think its a pretty bad (crazy) beat.

[Gordogg]

I'd raise the turn as well. Since he raised preflop and on the flop I'd put him on top pair at least. Reraising on the turn in that situation, after he's invested so much money into the pot, usually doesn't make an average/bad player fold when they have at least top pair with solid kicker. So by reraising on the turn, you still might win that 40k pot if he calls off his chips with TPTK or two pair. If he does fold, oh well. Still a nice pot. I'm not saying you played it wrong because you did have a solid read on the guy and went with it. You were right on with your read, just got really unlucky.

[junYUN]

screw the turn... i would have put a raise in on the flop.. because i would assume he hit a piece of that flop and may pay my set off.

assuming i hadnt rasied on the flop... the turn is a MUST raise.. especially when the club draw came out..

i dont see how you guys say it isnt that draw heavy.. straight draw on the turn and a flush draw.. not to mention a straight draw on the flop.. (what, he cant possibly have a hand like QJ? JT?)

just my 2 cents, but i think you played this hand pretty bad overall.

[JDMcNugent7]

i guess u missed the part where i said ALL he did was bluff. I knew he hit None of that flop, and was completely right, I dont think i needed to protecthis 4.7 chance of winning that hand.

[Talking Poker]

That's fine.... but you're not allowed to complain when someone sucks out on you if you don't protect your hand.

Think about it.

I'll say again:

[JDMcNugent7]

alright, ur right i shoulda pushed the turn,
no more complaining

[Gordogg]

I agree you can't complain, but I don't think his play was as horrible as everyone is making it out to be. Hasn't anyone been at a table with a guy that bets frequently with any two cards? If that guy is going to bet into your set like that, why not try to milk it? If I didn't have a read on the guy I'd have to put him on an A at least and of course I'd bet the flop in that situation. But considering the read he had on the guy, and I've had similiar experiences, why not slowplay? The reward outweighs the risk in my opinion.

[Talking Poker]

For the record, I never said JD made a horrible (or even bad) play... I've just been trying to point out that getting sucked out on is the RISK you run when you slowplay...

If you are a 90% favorite to win a hand - guess what? That means 1 out of every time times you are going to lose. So when it happens, don't act like it was impossible or the end of the world or whatever.

It happens all the time. It's just math.

[junYUN]

so you're saying because he bluffs a lot it's not possible he has a decent hand? what if he had something like Ac5c? i'm definitely raising with my set here. what if he has JT? QJ? JcTc/QcJc?? heck even a baby flush draw. i'm just saying that in these situations.. i really am looking to put a raise in.. because there ARE some draws out there.. and even IF the player is crap i still make this move more often because crappier players tend to pay you off with weaker hands as well. just my 2 cents.